I Know All the Church Answers, and I'm Still Anxious. Why?

Transcribed from the episode audio and lightly edited for readability. Speaker labels are automated and may occasionally be off.

Rachel: Unkink to get kinky.

Austin: Yes. Unkink to kink. I didn't wanna say it on here. I didn't want someone to steal that idea. That's a good idea, isn't it?

Rachel: That's a good idea.

Austin: Bet you'd like to know. You'll f you'll know at some point.

Rachel: Hey, everyone. Welcome to this episode of the Conscious Christian Marriage Podcast. We're your hosts, Rachel and Austin Holt.

Austin: Yo.

Rachel: And thank you for tuning in. Wherever you're tuning in from, we appreciate that you're here. of course, as always, leave us a five-star review. Drop those stars. But if today, if you're listening on YouTube, we would love to hear from you. we wanna hear in the comments where you're from, because it's been a lot of fun getting to know some of our listeners, hearing questions from you all, and specifically, we wanna know where you're tuning in from.

Austin: Yeah, because we travel. We like to travel, and, we travel around the country and do marriage workshops and marriage-related things. And who knows? Maybe you're in a city that we're gonna be traveling to, and, we would love to invite you to stuff like that, you know? And, we'd just love to know where our listeners are from. And if you are listening on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or- Android Podcasts and the, the 50 listening places, we'd encourage you to watch us on YouTube, because we tend to believe that, watching us on video is even more fun than

Rachel: More personable

Austin: Just listening to us on Spotify or a podcast app. But we love that you're doing that and we appreciate that you're doing that. Keep doing that. But it's really fun on YouTube, so hop on YouTube sometime, Conscious Christian Marriage, and then you can watch us and listen to us. And, which is double the fun. So, you know, there you go. So and you get to comment, and we can interact with your comments. It's just really cool. Or if you don't like commenting, you can just email us, because we get emails from people all the time, and we love just talking to people. So thanks for watching this episode today. Thanks for being a part of this movement with us. And today, we've got a really great topic, actually something we've wanted to talk about on the podcast since the very beginning. We've just been kinda waiting for God to tell us, like, when is the right time and with the right context and stuff like that.

So today's episode is gonna be, really cool, so, hopefully really helpful to you guys. So before we jump into it, we'll just start with our appreciations. So Rachel, I just know you're dying to appreciate me.

Rachel: I am.

Austin: So go ahead.

Rachel: I didn't prepare, and boom, there it is. I really appreciate you for the coffee dates you've been having with our children. so much so, our little two-year-old wants one with you. And I had a tea date with him this morning, 'cause he really loved and wanted a coffee date with you.

Austin: He came back in the house. Yeah. Like, actually, I heard you when you radioed me, 'cause I was in the cabin with Chloe. When I heard you radio, I could hear Malachi in the background. He's like, "I want a coffee date," in the background. It was pretty great.

Rachel: So I appreciate that you're investing specifically in quality time with them in the mornings when we start our day, so.

Austin: Yeah. Well, and I appreciate that.

Rachel: Thank you for that.

Austin: And that's another reason why I love getting up early, 'cause I can get up and get hours' worth of stuff done, and then they're just waking up. And then I can be with them and you. I just- I like the rhythm we have. Here's what I'm gonna appreciate about you, and this is not just a roundabout way to appreciate myself. But I'm gonna appreciate you for

Rachel: I don't know what this is

Austin: So over the last week/months, as we've been transitioning you away from Apple products, thank you, Lord

Rachel: Welcome

Austin: Over to the highly sophisticated and easy-to-use and just technologically graced, blessed-by-God platform, Android and PC, as we've been transitioning you away from Apple, over, I've been transferring all your photos out of iCloud.

Rachel: Oh, lord.

Austin: All 57,000 of them. And let me tell you, everyone, quick aside, maybe you love Apple products. Maybe you love iCloud. You apparently haven't tried to leave it yet, okay? When I left it years ago, and I used to have both, by the way. I used Apple and Android side by side 'cause we had different companies, and we needed multiple phones and stuff. And I've left it before. It's traumatic, okay? You will need to hire us to help you with your trauma if you leave Apple. And you should, you should leave Apple. I, I, should is a strong word. Once you leave it, you'll get it. You'll get why it's insane. But all this to say, I've been transferring your 57,000 photos, which you can only do 1,000 at a time, by the way. It's a very lengthy process. But I've noticed the countless little moments that you've captured,

Rachel: Aw

Austin: In our family, and it's just made me appreciate you.

Rachel: Aw.

Austin: Little things that maybe I wouldn't think to capture. You know, l just little moments of the kids doing different things, you taking lots of photos of me interacting with the kids so that I'm able to see myself from a a third angle, you know, third person's angle, point of view. And it's just really blessed me to, like, see myself with the kids, the videos, the photos, playing with them, doing different things. And so it just kinda made me realize, how intentional you are with creating memories and cataloging and capturing and memorializing, like, all these amazing things we've done in our life, since we've been married. And so yeah, just, it took n it didn't take going through 57,000 photos to know that. But going through 57,000 photos has really reminded me of just how intentional you are as a mother, as a wife, as a person. And it's all there. Like, there's photos of everything. And I'm really thankful for that, because I can go back and look at, like even just, I was, today, when I wrapped up that little project, just, I was getting into all the photos of Malachi, like, when he had just come home you know, from the hospital.

And, and just, like, you know, seeing that tiny little boy, and the girls, like, all, each, you know, cuddling him when we brought him home, it was just really special to me. So- I appreciate how intentional you are, and I appreciate that you just are so good at capturing moments that we'll get to keep for the rest of our lives, so.

Rachel: Mm-hmm. Thank you. And thank you for taking that monkey off my back.

Austin: Yeah. You're welcome.

Rachel: That was a lot.

Austin: Any anything to serve you. Anything to serve you. I'm just thankful that you are on Android now. You see these matching

Rachel: Yeah, we're twinning

Austin: S23 Ultras. I think that's what they're called.

Rachel: I did switch for the camera, but there have been lots of perks. But the camera

Austin: The camera alone is just

Rachel: Oh, my word It's so good.

Austin: And this, episode is not even sponsored yet by Samsung. But I'm telling you, these phones just blow any iPhone out of the water. Anyways, if you agree or disagree, feel free to leave a comment below and we'll talk about it. So all right, so today's episode, I'm, I'm really excited. This is really covering a question that we've had asked a lot. Many, many times. Again, kind of like last week's episode, just phrased in a lot of different ways, and I think we've sort of narrowed it down to a really great way to ask this question so you can actually understand the question.

Rachel: Yeah, and it's something we consistently help people with.

Austin: Yeah. Yeah, I would say this is actually something, like, very cornerstone-ish to our approach to healing and integration relationships, knowing the self, communicating, connecting, building rapport even. and, so here's this question. It's, "I know all the church answers, but I'm still anxious. Why?" "I know all the church answers, but I'm still anxious. Why?" So today, we're gonna talk about anxiety, and we're gonna first kinda talk about sort of the problem, like, why this even comes up. Then we're gonna talk a little bit about the solution. We'll go through some examples, give a little bit of context. But really, I just wanna have a conversation about you, just on how we understand anxiety, how we've helped people with their anxiety. And we know the church means well and loves well and all of that with helping Christians through anxiety, but I think we can really help, bolster up the church's approach to anxiety. Not, not- I mean, while using scripture, while using, just pragmatic resources through the counseling, the therapy world, just, and through just some basic psychology.

And really what it ultimately does though, I just wanna say this, like, from the beginning, is it ultimately points back to how good God is, and it really just points back to how powerful and capable He made us in regulating emotions. And we don't wanna limit the emotional experience, because we believe that the emotional experience is, one thing that's designed by God to give us richness in life, you know? And, and one thing we say around here a lot and, and when we're working with couples is you don't want to spiritually override your emotions, but you don't wanna emotionally override the spirit. There is this balance. Again, it's heart, soul, mind strength. It's allowing yourself to feel that depth of sorrow so you can experience the richness of joy while also staying rooted and grounded in truth and scripture and leaning on God. And w really, which is kinda how we're gonna wrap this episode up actually. You know? And we're gonna give you guys some really practical steps on how to understand anxiety, how to heal anxiety, how to, how What it actually means to take your anxiety and give it to God, and how that then how that's gonna then change your marriage and change your faith, you know?

So.

Rachel: Yeah. So one of the problems is, is that Christians, a lot of people don't actually know how to even define anxiety. They don't even know what it is.

Austin: Yeah, just articulating it is a little

Rachel: Being able to say, like, "Well, this i this is anxiety." And some of us might even be struggling with anxiety and not even know it or be able to even admit it.

Austin: Yeah. A and I think a lot of people too, I don't think this, we've experienced this, are actually deeper into depression. They think it's anxiety, but they're actually, they're actually depressed. And then some people even go beyond that and start to get dissociative, and they're even thinking that's anxiety, but really they're even two or three places past it. So not only can most people not articulate what anxiety is, they, they feel it. Like, they know it. You know, they'll be like, "I feel anxious," but they don't know how to articulate it. they also don't know where it comes from. That's another part of the problem is they actually don't know where, what the sources of anxiety are, 'cause all anxiety can be sourced back to a specific objective, emotion, a desired outcome, something we're delaying. You know?

Rachel: Yeah, for sure.

Austin: And we'll, we'll define that here in a second. most Christians believe that anxiety is just fear. You know, "I'm afraid of blank, so I'm anxious about it." "I'm worried about blank, so I'm anxious about it." But really, fear is just the first part of it, okay? it, fear is really just the c the first component of anxiety, and most Christians don't do the actual acts that resolve the anxiety. They just stay in fear. I think that's a really, really big part of it. And I think most Christians really only understand anxiety as fear, and fear does play a part in anxiety. But fear is really just the root of what keeps Christians from action and s taking specific action which actually resolves their anxiety. And a lot of times, that looks like partnership with God, which we're gonna talk about. But I think for a lot of Christians, they actually can't differentiate just being afraid of something and being anxious about something. And so a lot of times they'll just take everything they're afraid of, and they'll call it anxiety.

Maybe start with, like, another part of the problem.

Rachel: Yeah. And another part of the problem is that Christians are living in too many either/ors and not enough this and that. For example, you know, it's like, just pray that God would take away your anxiety. And, you know, we'll t we'll talk more about this, but I think so many people do that, and they say, "Okay, cast my cares on God. I'm gonna pray," and then it, the anxiety's still there. And they don't understand why, and it leads to a lot of frustration and questions and doubt, when really it needs to be an "and." Like, pray that God would mold you, shape you that He would take your fear, that

Austin: Deliver you.

Rachel: Yes. Yeah, that He would fight your battle, but also say, like, "I've got my sword. God, teach me what I need to do. Grow me in the areas that I need to grow." Heal, and all that, and showing up in an actionable way instead of just praying and being like, "Okay, God," like, "Why?" But, you know, when we pray, how does God answer His prayers? He usually answers it through people. And we're people, and He can answer our own prayers f even through ourselves. He might do it through the people around us, but what can we do to partner with God- To be a part of what we're praying for.

Austin: Yeah, and I think that this applies to not only just the conversation on anxiety, I think there's a lot of things where, Christians want it to be either/or. You know? And I think sometimes we do that because it's really safe to feel like it's out of our control and someone else is gonna do it for us. I mean, developmentally that would really line up with, you know, our childhood and everything. But so much of the Bible, if you look at it, it's people being, faithful and hopeful in God, and then God leading them to respond. You know, and that's

Rachel: They have to actually do stuff.

Austin: And that, and that's what builds a really good relationship between us and God is this, He teaches, He guides, He wills, okay, and then we respond, you know? And so I think when it comes to anxiety, in a lot of advice in general, a lot of what Christians have been given is, "Well, all you have to do is this." And we'll, again, we're gonna go through this too. "All you have to do is X, Y, and Z, and that will work," you know? But we really have this more kind of, you know, Saint Augustine approach. You know, praise, it depends on God, work like it depends on you. And so, you know, if we pray, "God, please fight my battles. Please win my battles for me," you can pray that and you can pick up a sword and you can go fight. You know? And I think if we apply that, just that sense of action and responsibility to every area of our lives, we're gonna gain a lot more ground.

You know? Because sometimes God does the divine, right? I think He's doing the divine constantly

Rachel: Yeah. He, yeah

Austin: And we, we don't even realize it. You know, it's like you're late to a meeting when maybe God helped you not get T-boned in an intersection, right? Like, I think God's exercising His divinity

Rachel: More than we're aware

Austin: Way, way more than we think. Yeah, for sure. But I think that a lot of times we forget that we can pray that God would be divine and do His divine thing and we can also be people of action. You know? Because like you said, you know, you could pray that God would feed that person bread over there. Well, maybe God's gonna give you the bread and you're gonna go take it to him.

Rachel: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think another example is, you know, maybe you've been praying for healing of your, you know, past trauma, or you have this anxiety and fear based on some things that have happened to you and you're asking God to just heal those things. Or, you know, just to take your anxiety, and a lot of that might be rooted in fear that you're hoping God would just take away. When really, He's actually maybe already resourced you with the, the people, the, the resources, the opportunity, the support. But it just takes you giving that fear to God and but stepping out in faith and saying- "I'm gonna be vulnerable. I'm gonna be humble." "I'm gonna do the hard, quote, unquote, 'work'-" to do what needs to be done in order for God to intervene in my heart."

Austin: Yeah. Yeah, I, I think that's a big part of it, because we've just seen that time and time again where people do realize, like, that's why, again, the, the title of this, you know, podcast today is, like, I know all the church answers, but I'm still feeling anxious, like why is that? So I don't think that we necessarily have a lack of answers, but there's a lot of lack of application, responsibility, and humility in that. You know, and people don't realize the pattern that they have probably grown up with and live with where they'd really like to not have to get, like you said, vulnerable or humble to solve their problem. Because I think sometimes bad advice has been given by the church you know, which is like, "All you have to do is cast your cares, cast your anxieties, pray and read the Bible, and God will-" "literally make every path straight." But then when He doesn't do that, we start to ask other questions, and we're gonna go through those here in, in just a second.

But it's so hard not to jump ahead- 'cause it's like some of this is so, like, circular in nature to talk through. So- Anyway, let's move into helping people understand what anxiety is. And so we've talked a little bit about kind of the problem behind anxiety and let's provide everyone some really actually initially just clarity around understanding what anxiety is, what it isn't. So anxiety is really, is in the simplest terms, and, and we're not being blase about what probably looks like a big, maybe complex topic. But to put it in really simple terms, anxiety is really this gap between the present moment and when we know something is coming or we think something is coming, okay? So it's the gap between this moment and when we think something is coming or something is going to happen, okay? A dam is going to break, okay? Tears are going to fall. Truth is gonna come out. Ownership is gonna have to be taken of something that we've done, something that we've experienced.

And so that's when someone says, "I'm anxious about blank," well, what are they usually anxious about? They're usually anxious about a tough conversation, a tough consequence, a tough feeling, something really big and really scary that maybe they haven't started to prepare for yet, they haven't looked inward about, they haven't given to God yet. And so there's a lot of anxiety between this moment and that thing happening or that thing coming. And so anxiety usually comes from three places. Okay, number one is just not telling the truth. Right? Number one is not telling the truth, and this creates this kind of mind-heart anxiety. 'Cause think about it for a minute. Like, think about a time in your life where you didn't tell the truth, and you knew at some point

Rachel: Duh.

Austin: That the truth was gonna come out. So there's a gap between this moment and when I finally tell the truth. Rachel, you got any things you would like, you know, need to share or anything?

Rachel: Mm. Juicy.

Austin: I'm just kidding. But, you know, yeah, so there's, there's this kind of heart and mind anxiety that comes from, "There's a truth I wanna tell." And it's not necessarily from withholding but it might be just a lack of being forthcoming, right? Like, maybe may maybe you want to say, maybe you wanna tell the truth about something that's just preference related. You know, maybe you're really anxious. Maybe you're like, you know, maybe, maybe, I'm just making this up, you don't like our diet. You know? You don't like the whole carnivore, you know, kinda diet. So maybe you w maybe you feel anxious about telling me the truth, like, "Hey, babe, like, I'd prefer not to just eat, like, a pound of steak every night for dinner for years on end." I'm, and, and I'm not saying you feel that way. I'm just trying to make this up. But it doesn't necessarily have to be like, "Hey, I'm lying to you about something." Okay? Because- Withholding and not being forthcoming are sometimes two different things.

But you might be just anxious about telling the truth about a preference. And again, a lot of anxiety is rooted in fear. Okay? But it d it doesn't stop with fear. It's not just fear. It's that fear keeps us from actually dissolving anxiety. So you might be afraid to tell me that because you think I'm gonna respond to you in a negative way and be upset with you.

Rachel: Or it could be saying, like, "Yeah, today was really rough. I," you know, "experienced blank, blank, and blank," and just being able to share that and speak it out loud, you know, not withholding your experience. Or your experience about something that you've gone through with your spouse. Like, "Hey, that one season that we went through, that actually Like, I think about that and I still have," which this is the next point we're gonna say is even just feelings, but- "I still have some feelings about that," or, "I'm still kinda struggling with what we experienced during that time." Like- "I wanna talk about it," and just being able to flush it out you know?

Austin: 100%, because again, it doesn't have to be that I'm lying to you. It could just be that, like, "Here's something I have felt fear in saying out loud." And sometimes it's saying something out loud, sometimes it, it's telling the truth. But one major area that anxiety comes from is just from not telling the truth.

Rachel: All right, and the second area in our lives that anxiety can come from is not feeling a feeling. So this is why, you know, even a lot of our work is helping people heal. It's just a feeling that they didn't feel, you know? They've, they've lived with this anxiety, and, and maybe they've shamed themselves for feeling angry about something or, you know, didn't wanna feel the sadness because a lot of people don't wanna feel sadness because they're afraid that if they go there, they'll stay there. And that it's just such, such a hard place to go to, but in reality, when we go there, we're able to release it, and that is the way. Like you've said, I think you've said on the podcast before, the obstacle is the way. And a lot of that is, it applies to this with feeling. If you're avoiding feeling a feeling, all feelings have to be felt. And, and all feelings come from the same place. So, you know, happy, sad, angry, sexual, fearful, they all come from the same If you picture it as a hose, right?

Like, they all flow through there. So if you're avoiding feeling angry or suppressing your sadness, what you're doing is kinking the hose of your joy of your happiness, even of your sexual intimacy, your ability to, to really connect and feel sexual feelings. And

Austin: Yeah, which is why a lot of times when we're helping couples with sexual issues, one of the first questions we ask is, "Husbands do you feel comfortable being sad?" And wives, "Do you feel comfortable feeling your anger?" And if one or both of them say no, then we generally know that there's a big emotional blockage that's actually, you know, kind of shrouded in the sadness or anger and then it's resulting in not being able to feel sexual feelings.

Rachel: And so, so not only do they all go together, but a feeling can't not be felt. And it's like an ice cube. Th this is why, you know, trau trauma can kinda just pop up at any time because if we suppress that, it actually takes incredible energy to suppress emotions. It takes more effort and energy to suppress an emotion ah, than it actually takes to just feel it. And that, I mean, talk about that. Like, I can feel that almost. Like, imagining pushing a ball

Austin: The beach ball, yeah

Rachel: A beach ball down in the water. Like, let's say you're at the pool and you're pushing. You know some of us, we probably maybe all try this at one point, trying to push that beach ball under the water. It's very effortful. But then when you let it go, it's, oh okay, it's over. It's gone. It's done. And that's what feeling a feeling is, and in so much of our anxiety comes from not feeling a feeling. I mean, it's, you'll see it everywhere now that we're gonna say, I'm gonna say this, but anytime someone cries you know what the first thing they say is? "Sorry."

Austin: Yeah, "I'm sorry."

Rachel: Anytime anybody tears up, they're like, "Sorry, sorry." Like it's this bad thing. And, and we're out to culturally change that. I mean, we say, "No, it's, it's good. Like, something's coming up for you. That's that's a good thing." And, that's one way that you can be a conscious Christian in the world is when somebody feels a feeling, like, just hanging with them and allowing them to feel it. And especially in your marriage, being able to hold space for your spouse.

Austin: Yeah, and just honor them. Honor them because that's, you know, to be whole, you have to take in everything. You know, that's why a lot of people, they don't feel whole, they don't feel integrated, you know, because they've rejected parts of themselves. You know, other people have rejected them, so then they've internalized that, and now they reject themselves. But this is why, you know, especially men wake up in their 40s, 50s, 60s and have these midlife crisis, crisi, crisii. How do you say it? Midlife crisi, crisii? Because they've actually, they're feeling stuff that they never felt a long time ago, okay? They stretched the rubber band, you know. Now women are way more fluid in feeling. You know, the feminine typically feels more as time goes on than the masculine does. The masculine is, has a little bit more of a cliche kinda reputation for, "I'm not gonna cry. I'm not gonna feel. I'm gonna bottle it all up." Well, that's why more men have these big you know, midlife crisis moments, you know, than, than women do, because they got to this place where maybe they achieved the career, they achieved the physique, they achieved the money.

They achieved, you know, kids, and kids are out of the house and all this, and all of a sudden they're, they're just left with themselves. Most men keep themselves so busy they don't have time to slow down and, and hear the voice, you know? Like, to focus on themselves, you know? And to actually, like, do any inner work, like popping the hood in any way, and then all of a sudden it's like, boom, it happens. They wanna feel young again. They feel like all this time has passed. Like they're allowing, like, all this, all this pressure's hitting them at once. And so but for all of us, all feelings, like you said, have to be felt. They'll be felt at some point. And so if, if something happened to you when you were 12 and you never allowed yourself to process that, you will process it someday. And the longer you wait, the harder it's gonna be. And I think that's one of the reasons we have the most anxiety-ridden generation we've ever had is because the most shame about feeling feelings has been preached.

And not just from the pulpit, but from the, but from the world. You know? And so the more that we're willing to process, the more that power subsides over us from being anxious, you know? And so, people are walking around like ticking time bombs with all this unprocessed grief, all this unprocessed sadness all this unprocessed anger. So then all that unprocessed stuff just becomes landmines, you know, where all of a sudden I, I've got this, you know, unprocessed thing that happened to me when I was younger and it's this landmine. And so here I might You know, let's just say you're not my wife and you're a friend at church or a, a client or an associate or whoever, a neighbor, and you're just casually walking around and

Rachel: Do, do, do, do

Austin: Boom, you walk right over Can they see that? Yeah, there it is. they, you walk right over a landmine of mine. And all of the sudden I go from zero to 100, okay? And it's not because you did anything wrong, it's because I left a landmine out. And so if you're walking around with a ton of unprocessed trauma, energy, emotion, frustration, maybe lack of forgiveness, then you're susceptible to someone just, boop, barely touching that landmine and you explode. And imagine how much more powerful people could be for the kingdom of God if they didn't have all these landmines. You know? So you know, when we're looking at places anxiety comes from, if you're someone who feels like you're chronically anxious, you probably have some trauma in your nervous system that you haven't dealt with yet. You know? And one thing I do appreciate about this generation is that we're becoming more trauma aware and we're becoming more nervous system focused. Understanding that you don't store emotions in your brain, you store them in your body.

Okay? And so sometimes you might look at someone and judge them for not taking action or not being a certain way. Well, most people are the way that they are as a culmination of how they grew up, their conditioning, their trauma, their nature, their nurture, all those things. Their values, the alignment to those values, and all that. So if you meet someone who's chronically stuck, well, it's probably 'cause they have nervous system trauma they've never dealt with before. And you might be wondering, "Well, doesn't God heal us of that? Don't we give that to God?" And yes, we're gonna talk about that here in a minute, along with some really good steps. But if you're someone who's chronically anxious, a and again, when someone sits down with us, a couple or, or if we're doing one-on-one work, sits down and says, "I'm really anxious" one of the first things we do is we ask this question. And the first thing we do, which we'll talk about here in a minute, is just kinda assess, like, where they are with God, like, their identity with God.

Like, "Do you see yourself as a child of God?" So that we can help you walk in these truths and, and promises. And once we kind of cover that base, we go right into, "Well, what have you not told the truth about? What feeling have you not felt?" And the third thing that we go through with them is, "What have you not taken responsibility for?" Okay? Do, do you have any other thoughts on the anxiety piece before I wrap that up?

Rachel: On the feelings? No. I mean

Austin: No, I'm sorry, on the anxiety piece

Rachel: Yeah, I could talk about that all day.

Austin: Yeah. Well, I, I think it's just, yeah, important for people to understand, we're gonna give some examples here is that if you're walking around chronically anxious, it's not because God hates you, it's not because you're a dirty sinner, it's not because you're screwed up. It's probably just because you have felt fear in feeling your feelings. 'Cause again, fear is the thing that keeps us The story behind fear is what keeps us from doing the thing that resolves the anxiety. So, like, people have a fear of telling the truth, so they don't, and it makes them anxious. So they're afraid to tell the truth, they don't tell the truth, and now there's this gap between now and whenever they're gonna tell the truth someday that they're miserable in. Same thing with feeling feelings. You're afraid to feel your feelings so you don't. So you stop feeling feelings, and now there's a gap between now and the day you blow up or you blow in. The opposite of blowing up, but collapsing in.

I think blow in's kinda cool. Blow up, blow in. We're gonna leave that because we're just gonna leave that open for interpretation.

Rachel: Not gonna edit that one out.

Austin: Yeah, we're gonna leave that. but whether you're gonna blow up or whether you're gonna collapse inward. Get it? The, the real more clinical term would be, you know, collapse, you know? and so, so the third thing, the, the third area of life that most people, their anxiety is gonna, you know, fit into a bucket, or they're gonna fit into is, something they have not taken responsibility for. And this is a big one, okay? Let's say that you've made some mistakes. You've made some miscalculations. Okay, maybe your mistake was negligence, like you just may maybe you weren't paying attention, maybe you were being, you know, out of control, undisciplined and, and being negligent. Or maybe it was just a honest to God mistake. You know? Like you were bouncing a ball and you broke a vase in the kitchen, okay? Just total mistake. Or maybe you knew that you were going, you know, 90 in a 60 on the highway and you got pulled over, okay?

And so a lot of people are anxious about what they haven't owned yet. What they haven't taken responsibility for yet. They're stuck in victim, but they know someday they're gonna have to own it. If they want the pain to be over, they're gonna have to own. And I think even people who aren't believers yet, I think people who even aren't the more kind of conscious, mindful type person yet, I think everybody knows at some point you're gonna have to take ownership for what you've done. And of course, we believe that in a, you know, on a salvation, throne room, you know, judgment day type perspective as well, where there's gonna be this, this accounting for everything we've ever done. But even in this physical life, I think everyone knows at some point we're gonna have to be accountable to everything we've ever done. You know, and we can try to deny it. You know? It's like if two people are in an elevator and one of them farts.

They both know who did it. But one of the people in the elevator might be like, "Yeah, it wasn't me. It wasn't me. It wasn't me. It wasn't me." But now they're anxious about it 'cause they know there's a gap between that moment and when everyone's gonna know it's them and they're gonna have to admit it. But most people are anxious because they haven't owned something yet and they're living in the tension. What?

Rachel: Oh, I hope I'm not the only one still laughing when people are listening to this.

Austin: I think surely they will be.

Rachel: About your really, really good example.

Austin: Oh, thank you. And the tension. But

Rachel: Farting in the elevator

Austin: Oh, farting in the elevator. I think that's a great I think that's a great one because it's, it's a easy analogy to so many things in life. You know, where someone knows they made the mistake and everyone else knows, but that person is still denying it. Because they're afraid, again, fear is the root of what makes us anxious. They're afraid of what it might make them look like or what people might think about them if people knew that they were responsible for this thing. Okay? And so then people live in that tension. They live in that anxiety. between this moment and when they know they're gonna take responsibility someday. And for some Christians, that may be you're not gonna take responsibility until you're literally at, in, in, in, at the throne of God. And, and God says to you, "Hey, let's talk." And maybe you know it's gonna be then, and you're anxious about it. But if you can get rid of that anxiety

Rachel: Ugh, that's no way to live

Austin: Yeah, that is that is no way to live. and, and we're gonna talk just kinda more about that. Now, this is also kinda that, like, mental, emotional anxiety. Now not feeling a feeling creates physical anxiety. You know? So if we go back to not feeling feelings about why most people are anxious, that actually creates a literal physical anxiety. I mean, we can see it in the way people, people's, you know, posture is. You know? Even sometimes just the way they stand, the way they

Rachel: Breathe

Austin: The way they fold in, yeah, the way they breathe. Their, you know, the real shallow chest breathing. I can tell when someone has physical anxiety. And it's usually because that emotion, that energy, has not left their nervous system. But not owning something, that creates more of that mental, emotional, you know, kinda heart anxiety. You know? It's like because they're afraid that if they admit it, if they own it, if they own what has been hurting them in their life, it might mean something about them. People might think a certain way about them. God might think a certain way about them, even though God already knows. You know? And so, so again, all anxiety, and I say "all" with some quotes around it, but all anxiety comes from one of three places: I'm not telling the truth about something, I'm not saying something that I know I need to say and I'm gonna say at some point; number two, I'm not feeling a feeling that I know I'm gonna feel at some point, I have to feel it at some point; number three, I'm not owning something.

I'm not taking res- 'cause it's so easy to be in victim. Right? Like, even think about you getting pulled over, right? Like, "Oh, that cop, how dare he?" Wait, what? You, you were breaking the rules and you knew it. You literally have a speedometer in your car. You know? Or let's just say that, you know, you and your spouse, you know, have a kerfuffle. And, you know, I'm waiting around for you to take responsibility for it. I'm anxious about it. "Is she gonna come in here and apologize? Is she gonna come in here and take res she's a marriage coach. She should come in here and claim responsibility." All I'm gonna do is be anxious about that. You know? But instead, I can relieve that anxiety by actually taking responsibility.

Rachel: Mm-hmm, and I think it's worthy to note that you might still be feeling anxiety, you might think you've done some of these things and still be feeling anxiety. A lot of people think they feel their feelings, like and what I mean is we'll talk about being sad, and we'll say, "Oh, I'm so sad," like, "Oh, I'm so angry, I'm so frustrated." But that's not the same

Austin: That's not feeling, yeah

Rachel: As feeling and really flushing it out of your nervous system. And it's Yeah.

Austin: Well, I didn't wanna interrupt you there. You wanna finish?

Rachel: No, I think it's just, yeah, it's beneficial. It's the only way through, again, is flushing it all the way out. So saying the full truth feeling the full feeling and taking the full responsibility. 'Cause you could try to skirt your way around this. Like, maybe after you listen to this episode, you're like- "Yeah, I'm gonna, like, try to maybe say a little bit of the truth, but I'm still a little bit scared," you know?

Austin: Yeah. You'll know if you've done the work if you feel better. Because, and, and we're gonna, we're gonna tie all this together here in a minute with about how God made us. But, one thing, I wanna piggyback on what you said there, is thinking about a time you were sad is not the same thing as feeling sad. Thinking about a time you were scared, even talking about a time you were scared, is not the same thing. And we have processes that we take people through on this, but actually allowing yourself to feel sad. Sometimes all it takes is 10 seconds. Sometimes it just takes 10, 15, 20 seconds of feeling sad to actually just process your sadness. Most people spend all of their time putting off being happy, sad, angry, sexual, fearful, and it comes off in the form of anxiety rather than just actually going through the emotion, okay? a, a, a, a friend of ours and, and mentor, Dr. Gay Hendricks, he literally has a book about this called The 10 Second Miracle, and he talks about how sometimes all you need is 10 seconds, just 10 seconds.

Let yourself be actually sad. Let yourself actually mourn for 10 seconds, and then usually what you want to feel or the lesson behind that feeling comes after that 10 seconds. But for a lot of people, they'll spend days, weeks, months, years, lifetimes of not being sad. They'll trade that by being anxious. So I'm gonna be almost sad for 20 years instead of just being sad for 20 seconds. Okay? Huge source of anxiety. Okay? So what are you not saying? What are you not feeling? What are you not taking ownership for? More than likely, you can find your anxiety there. So the next thing we wanna chat about here, too, is just to understand, like, part of the question here is, like, "I know all the church answers. Why do I, you know, still feel anxious?" I wanna talk about the church answers and what those things actually mean, right? So most of the time, the church answer It, it I wanna be really clear here.

Everything we're sharing about the church here in this context and in any episode is our investment in the church being better. It's us preaching back to ourselves to make the church better. This is not an indictment of the church. This is us being willing to talk about tough stuff that areas of the church, us, can improve. And we're calling ourselves to be excellent. And so we wanna walk in that integrity in all ways. So a lot of the church answers are, "All you need to do is cast your cares on him." Okay? Everyone's heard that before, and I'm not saying that's not true.

Rachel: Correct.

Austin: I just wanna make sure- I'm, I'm clear on that. Maybe for, "If you're faithful, he will, you know, be, c be close to the, the broken-hearted. He'll bind up their wounds. If you're faithful, he will fight all your battles. God already won all your battles for you." Okay? "All you need to do is trust. All you need to do is pray." Okay? So then when a Christian has done all of these Here, here, here's, here's the tricky part. Here's the tricky part about anxiety, and about a lot, a lot of things related to this, but anxiety specifically. When we feel like we've done all that, okay, and we still feel anxious- Then a bigger risk is p is possible. A bigger problem is actually now gonna present itself. A bigger, bigger problem comes into play because then we start asking really, really tough questions. Okay? I've done everything I've been told to do, and I'm still anxious. Is the Bible not accurate? Okay, I've laid it down at the foot of the cross, I've prayed, I've cried, I've lamented, I've read the Bible.

I told my pastor about it. I went up to the altar call, and I, I still feel riddled with anxiety. Does God not love me? Is, is, is God not real? Okay, am I too shameful for God? Have I done too many bad things that God is now not gonna show me favor? I think it's important to remember and to note here that guilt is about behavior and shame is about identity. We're generally guilty over behavior, but we start to take on a negative guilt-based identity, and that's our shame. Guilt says, "Feel bad about what you did," shame says, "Feel bad about who you are." And so a lot of times when we feel guilty long enough, we start to take on a new identity, which this is where a lot of the problem is that we're gonna kinda tie this together, is you take on this identity that you're not a good son of God, you're not a good daughter of God. You're too far gone.

God's making you a modern-day Job for some reason. He's gonna make an example out of you. and, actually, it'd probably be an honor if God, you know, made you a Job because- God literally said, you know, who could find a more high integrity man in all the world than Job? But anyways, but you might feel that way. Like, "Okay, God, are you destroying everything in my life to like try to prove that I'm faithful or something?" But if we allow that shame to creep into our life, it changes who we think we are, thus changing how we respond to scripture. Which is one of the key points here we're gonna talk about. But if we do all these things and we still feel anxious, people start to ask tough questions. "God, where are you? Are you really there? Do you really love me? Am I too far gone? Do you actually care? Am I going to be this way forever?"

Rachel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's really good. And I think it's also important to note that God can take all your anxiety away. He has. He's, he's done this. We've seen this personally, where we've prayed for people, you know, they, you know, had a s like a spirit of anxiety that was just crippling, and they were seeing images and all kinds of different things. And we prayed for her one, two, three times, and each time it was lighter, and by the end she was like- "I, I'm just laughing with joy," and she was just laughing with joy. And God literally, we, we watched that be lifted, and multiple people we've seen this. And so God does that. He really does heal people and, but, see, we don't know everything that God knows. And God knows sometimes what we need more. Sometimes we need the miracle so that we can do other things more effectively, and sometimes the miracle is, or I'm sorry, the lesson is the way. And we don't get the lesson through a miracle.

We get the lesson through the healing and the showing up and, and the work. Quote, quote work. And so sometimes God doesn't heal. But it doesn't mean, you know, 'cause you might see somebody and say, "Oh, they struggle with anxiety, and they just went to the altar," or- "So-and-so prayed for them, and now they're, like, doing all these things, and they don't even struggle with that." "But here I am." You know, it's easy to have those questions, but maybe the better question is what is God trying to teach me and what is the lesson for me? Because, I mean, I've experienced that personally. There have been so many things that, you know, I've prayed to God, like, "God, take this from me." Like, even many times, like, "Take my sadness." I, you know, "I don't want this anymore." You know, like, but he says, "No," like, "this is the way." Like, you need to feel the depth of this. And of course, he's equipped me, you know?

Through the, the tough things that I've gone through, you know, we've shared that here, the things that I have walked through that God didn't just, you know, snap his fingers and, and answer prayer, it was years, decades of work, but I wouldn't be able to even be here on this podcast without having done that and walked through those things. So for you, there might be a deeper lesson. There might be some, quote, unquote, "work to be done." And man, like, we are so, the best thing in life is to be able to use what God has walked us through to help other people. And more than likely, like, I don't know, you know, whoever you are listening, I don't know what you're going through, why you have anxiety, or you know, what the rest of your life looks like, but I do know that God does have a great purpose for you and God does want to use what you're going through, and if he hasn't snapped his fingers then there's

Austin: There's something better

Rachel: Probably a lesson, and there's something really good that he's gonna use you for through it.

Austin: Yeah. Yeah, that's right. It's, it's realizing that sometimes, yes, God will just, in his divinity, boom, take your anxiety away, and like you said, we've seen that. But more often than that, we've seen God partner with people. Because God usually wants to grow us through something. He wants to teach us through something. He wants to, he wants to help us grow through it and not around it so that we're equipped and resourced to have a felt sense to walk someone through that in the future. And so, we see God partner with people. We see God, help someone gain a skill set after getting through their anxiety, after getting through something difficult. because what you have to understand is that God wants to equip us. God wants to empower us. God wants to be able to use us. Because one of the promises that a conscious Christian, that everyone listening to this podcast today, I want to rely on is this, is that what you go through in this life is not in vain.

That's one of the most powerful promises in scriptures is because of the work Jesus did on the cross, all of our trials, tribulations, pains, sorrows, none of it's in vain. All of it can be used to glorify God. So every difficult thing you've ever gone through, every pain you've ever gone through, all of that can be used to glorify God. And when we rely on those promises, and when we rely on the truth in scripture, and we rely on the pro on, on the word of God, it actually changes how we can approach anxiety. Which really kind of gets us to sort of just the ultimate kind of climactic part of this episode. Which is really, how does God equip us to move through anxiety, from a biblical, spiritual perspective, and then where does some of the counseling psychology piece come into play here as to serve as sort of an application of scripture? Because we believe all good things come from God. Okay, so I think anything good that's ever been produced out of anything man-made has all been guided by God.

All right? So like the counseling therapy psychology world was, was not some God thing, but all the good things in it came from good truths and promises from God. And so our approach to helping people with anxiety first starts with a very biblical, very rooted perspective on who we are, how God made us, and how we step into who we are so that we can actually have the courage, faith, hope, and the kind of spiritual scaffolding to take on our anxiety. So what we wanna do is break this down into two steps. Okay? We've talked about the problem of anxiety. We've talked about what anxiety actually is. So hopefully those of you watching or listening have some clarity around what anxiety actually is, the gap between now and when you know that thing is gonna happen that you're anxious about. Okay, so prob all of you are probably wondering, well, what are the steps to tackle this? Okay? What's the, what's the biblically rooted approach?

What's our identity-rooted approach to finding our anxiety and then healing it? If God's not gonna divinely do it, how do we partner with him? How do we work with him? Okay. And our approach, like we said, is the application of promises of scripture. We believe the word of God is complete. The incomplete part is how people are willing to be humble enough to apply scripture in pragmatic ways that are responsible and effective. That's really what it comes down to. 'Cause for a lot of people, it's like, "Well, I prayed and I read the Bible, and I guess it, it just wasn't God's will." But it's like but you didn't leave your La-Z-Boy for six months. So how could you have gotten a job, right?

Rachel: Physically or metaphorically.

Austin: Yeah, physically or metaphorically. That's good. Just you haven't left the La-Z-Boy of the brain, right? And so we're gonna break this down into two steps on conquering anxiety, okay? So Rachel, what's step one?

Rachel: Yeah. Step one is realizing, well, asking yourself, "Am I fully stepping into who God created me to be?" Have I accepted have I, have I faced that I am this incredible child of God, and knowing that He loves me, and, and just fully accepting that, and living out what God has called you to do. because sometimes we might say, like, okay, yeah, we might have the head knowledge, like, "Oh, yeah, I'm, I'm a child of God," but really believing it and letting that be our identity. Like what we're based in, what we're rooted in. Because a lot of, you know, wandering or, frustration, anger, you know, avoiding the truth and all of that is just not really actually accepting God's love over us.

Austin: That's right. Because if you don't accept God's love for you and how precious you actually are to him why would you think your anxiety could ever go away anyways? Like, if you're not convinced that God doesn't love you, that He sent His son to die for you, that you're valuable, that you're more precious than gold, that you're his masterpiece, then why would you on a conscious or unconscious level actually think, one, that you deserve for your anxiety to go away, or two, for it to even be possible?

Rachel: Yeah. So when you take on that identity that you know that you know that you know that you are a child of God that He loves you you know, that He has this reckless love for you, that He would do anything for you, that you're worthy of forgiveness, you're worthy of being free of anxiety

Austin: Worthy of healing

Rachel: Yeah, then it gives you the courage to then do what we're gonna tell you to do step two. And so, you know, if that alone, you know, you're still expe experiencing anxiety, then you are now equipped to have the courage to then move through step two.

Austin: And I think step one is the litmus test of step two. If you fully believe that you are a child of God, you fully believe that you're worthy, you're, you're leaning on the promises of scripture, the truths of scripture, and if you're able to look back and find the evidence of God's goodness in your life like we say, confidence comes from evidence. Everyone, i if you don't have this, pause this episode and make a list of the top 10 pieces of evidence in your life for where God has shown up and God has come through for you. Because if you can't recall 10 pieces of evidence of where God has just come in and, and, and done something powerful in your life, then back up a step and go do that, because we anticipate How we create the future Okay, this is manifesting, okay?

Rachel: He did air quotes.

Austin: Air quotes, manifesting. We anticipate the future. We pre-create the future by anticipating what we think is gonna happen next. Okay? So like if you want to manifest joy, okay, then you're going to anticipate joy. You're gonna create joy unconsciously because you're anticipating it. Okay? You're gonna create success because you're anticipating it. If you believe God is good, and you believe God loves you, and you believe in scripture, and if you believe in Jeremiah 29 frigging 11, okay? "For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to help you and to prosper you, plans to give you hope and a future," if you believe that, if you anticipate that God is going to come alongside you, support you, and love you, then you can actually, like Rachel said, face your anxiety. Okay? So step one is I step into my identity, okay? You, in your crazy situation, okay, you just make that first proclamation, like, "I'm a man of God," "I'm a woman of God," whatever, "and I'm gonna step into this identity.

I know that God is real. I know that He loves me. I know that He's for me, and He is going to help me fight my battles." And maybe the first battle He fought and one you didn't know about was you just having the courage to take a minute, to pause and remind yourself of who you are. So step one is you remind yourself of who you are, and you ask that question, "Am I stepping into who I am as a child of God?" Okay? Then question I'm sorry, step two- You're gonna ask yourself three questions. Okay? And you, and y you're only gonna be effective with these if you did step one properly. So if step two's not working, step one's not done yet. Okay? Go back and really reassess who you are and lean into the truth of who God says you are. Step two, we ask ourselves three questions. What am I not saying or telling the truth about? Question number two, what am I not feeling?

Question three, what am I not owning or taking responsibility for? Okay? And then pause. Give yourself a second. And usually the first thing that comes up, that's what it is. Okay? If you ask the question what am I not owning or taking responsibility for? Let's say, "God, I'm giving you my anxiety," because you're anxiety about your bills coming up. Okay, maybe you've got some bills due, small bills or big bills. Okay? Maybe you're an you're anxious about your finances. Well, maybe the lesson here is that God wants you to ask the question, "Hey, Austin, I know you're anxious about your finances. how are you not owning or taking responsibility for that?" Maybe I made some really reckless financial decisions. Okay? Maybe I bought another guitar. Maybe I bought another gun. Maybe I bought another car that I didn't need, and now that's put a little, you know, strain on the Holt budget. This has never happened before. and so- Quotes, kind of. No, we're

Rachel: You're financially wise.

Austin: Well, thank you. But I think

Rachel: But you have bought

Austin: I have

Rachel: Another of all those things, yes.

Austin: But, yes, I Yes. and so maybe the real lesson here is, like, okay, God, I have not owned yet that I knew that our budget was thinner and I still splurged and bought myself a new toy, or we went out to eat 17 times that week, you know? Or, I made a bad hedge on, you know, the stock market, you know, whatever it is. And so you might be anxious about your finances, and God wants to heal you of your finances, but God doesn't want you to make the same mistakes again and again and again. Some mistakes, God wants to help you heal, help, help you just process right then and there and move on. Some anxiety, God wants you to help just resolve. But sometimes he knows we're creatures of habit. If we don't learn, we'll do it again. So maybe the better miracle than the miracle of healing you instantaneously is the miracle of changing you. Okay? So if you can get to step two, you've done step one right, and step two's gonna lead you to just pausing and letting it come up.

And that might be the Spirit of God delivering it up to you. It might be signals coming from your vagus nerve up to your brain from all the serotonin, on the information highway. Whatever it is, you're gonna realize, "Oh, you know what? I did not tell the truth to Rachel the other day. I did not tell her the truth that I did not like the way that she was parenting our kids that one day, and I was scared to say something to her because I didn't want to get the cold shoulder, and so I just wasn't truthful with her." I'm kinda making up this scenario. "But I wasn't truthful with her." And then the moment that I tell you, "Hey, you know what? The other day I wasn't truthful with you." "Okay? We had a tough moment with the kids. They let the donkeys out. They escaped to the river. We thought they were gonna drown," whatever happened, "and the way that you handled it, I, I didn't think aligned with our parenting model."

"And, I, I wish I would've told you the truth, and I realize I've been kinda anxious because I knew I was gonna tell you the truth eventually." Okay? That would be an example here. Okay? So step one, step into your identity that G that, that God has already promised, signed, sealed, and delivered to you. All you have to do is have faith in him, to accept it, okay? Number two, ask yourself these questions. And then give yourself a minute. And you'll answer one of those questions, okay? And then you'll actually find the source of your anxiety. So then the action step, okay is to carry out the revelation in those questions. Again go tell the truth. Feel that feeling. Take responsibility for what you're avoiding taking responsibility for. And once you complete step two, the anxiety will start to subside because we're doing the very thing that we have been anxious about. Okay? And so when we master And I, I use the word master a little loosely, but I, I, I like to, I like to speak this language that we are, we have power over, the thoughts that come into our mind.

We have power over, what we let in, what comes out. And so I, I just like to use this, this idea that when we start to master our anxiety 'Cause you may not ever be without any anxiety at all, so you have to look at anxiety as a component of your psyche that you are going to master. Okay? So when we master our anxiety, it impacts our life in huge ways. It changes our marriage. It changes our faith in God. It changes the way we treat people. It changes, I, I, I believe, the way that we can withstand more amounts of love, success joy, good things in our life. So let's come up with a couple examples. Rachel, what's a really good example of how following these steps can impact our marriage, like, from an anxiety perspective?

Rachel: Yeah. I don't know if I've shared this here or not, but my brother did pass away. one of my brothers passed away, two year In October it'll be two years. And so, learning to really allow myself to feel the depth of my emotions has been huge, although I was kind of an expert on my emotions before, which really set me up to be able to grieve well. But sometimes I would judge myself for being sad or judge myself even for not being sad. Some days I would judge myself for not being sad after he died, like, that I wasn't a good sister if I was having a happy day. And so if I wasn't being honest with you about that guilt that I was feeling or that, like, judgment that I was having for myself, that would cause a lot of anxiety. Or if I was avoiding feeling that or, or owning that. And I really appreciate you for the way that you know me so well and helped me be able to almost be a mirror into myself to be able to process a lot of that stuff. because yeah, that was a hard season.

But, again, it's like God used that to equip me to be more, yeah, more equipped to help other people through grief and through feeling their feelings to a new depth that I hadn't experienced personally yet. And so because I was able to do that, I have experienced It hasn't limited me. Like that, the death of my brother has not It's been difficult, but it hasn't kept me from what God has for us. And it's only helped us to equip me to help more people. And it is not keeping me from being happy. Like, just experiencing the joy that I have for my kids. that was hard at first because I have a two-year-old little boy that looks like his Uncle Ben. And but now, you know, I can look at him and experience joy and sadness at the same time. But if I, if I just, oh, avoid feeling that then anxiety creeps up. But if I allow myself to just feel it in the moment, and like literally cry and laugh at the same time or just a, you know, communicate that with you, you know, 'cause it's sometimes it's all three, right?

It's like communicating it is the not withholding. It's like being truthful about your experience, which can be feelings that you're having. Like, oh my gosh, I'm feeling so happy because I love him so much, but I'm like so sad because he reminds me of him, and then allowing myself to feel that sadness. And then in this specific example, there might not be any ownership necessarily, but, yeah, being able to move through anxiety very quickly has helped us just to just keep enjoying life and to keep going levels above levels and never stop growing.

Austin: Yeah. Available on our website.

Rachel: My T-shirt.

Austin: Yeah. Well, I, I, I appreciate you bringing that up and being willing to, to share 'cause I know that's, that's been one of the harder things you've ever gone through. And, and it's been my joy to help you just spot, you know, where you've been anxious about it because, I mean, I'm incentivized to. Number one, like he helping, helping you process it is a way I get to love you. It's a way I get to serve you.

Rachel: Thank you.

Austin: And it also helps you show up better in our marriage, you know? And so, like if I notice that you're, I can tell when you're a little anxious and I'm like- "Hey, honey, like is there something you haven't told me? Is there something you haven't felt?" "Is there something you haven't owned?" And usually, you'll come up with one. You'll feel it or you'll share it, and then all of a sudden it's like a weight has been lifted. You know? And the only reason you're able to go there is because you've done step one. You have sealed in your heart the promises of scripture the promises of God, the, the, the hope that we have. You know your evidence for how God has shown up for you in your life. I mean, if you're breathing here today, God has shown up in your life, thousand pieces of evidence in my life, and just like you have. And because you've done that, because you know who you are as a, as a daughter of the king, you know the promises of scripture that God's plans are good, that He loves us, that He binds us, that He b or you know, binds up our wounds, does all these great things for us.

It's given you the emotional, spiritual scaffolding to be able to face. Most people won't face their anxiety 'cause like you said earlier, they don't think it'll end. They don't think the sadness will end. They don't think the fear will end. They don't think the anger will end, so they never face it. And so that's the one part a lot of times that the church skips is helping people actually face their anxiety. Part of giving it to God is partnering with God to face it. And when we give everything to God, God equips us, and God leads us. And if we're faithful in trusting our identity to Him, then He will make us strong so that we can actually go and fight these battles. If God wants to take the battle away, God, more power to ya. You know, if you can take the, the battle and teach me the lesson simultaneously

Rachel: That would be great

Austin: And I don't have, I don't, I don't have to get smacked with a sword a few times- God, I'd love you to do that. But if I have to face my anxiety and I have to deal with this so that I can be better, more effective for the kingdom of God, a better husband for you then I wanna face all my anxiety. But I'm proud of you for how you faced everything with Ben. I mean, all of it, you know? Because it's, you know, talk about a difference of, you know, processing, you know? Just you processed it very fluidly, which is honorable and amazing and, you know, I didn't. And then a month later I, you know, just kind of by myself melted down about it, you know? It's just like I, and I sometimes I envy how well you can just fluidly process because then I can tell you're lighter, you know? And I, I really honor you for getting to live in that lightness because that's a reward of your integrity, and it's a symbol, again, 'cause the litmus test, that you've done step one.

Which is like, hey, I know who God is. I know who I am in Him, so I know I can face my anxiety. If most Christians really knew who God was and they accepted, like you always say, really accepted that anxiety, they'll have the strength to face what have I not said? What have I not felt? What have I not taken responsibility for? 'Cause we won't go there if we haven't gone through step one. One example I wanna share about how when we master our anxiety it actually affects our faith is I know for me that, you know, the Bible says God already knows what we wanna pray for before we pray for it. But He wants us to pray for it anyways. God wants a relationship with us. And there's been times where I've been like, "Hey, I should admit that to God," and there's another kind of persona part of my psyche that's like, "No, He already knows that." Which is like a total scapegoat.

You know, high level, that's advanced scapegoating. Okay? God already knows that, so you don't need to say it.

Rachel: You don't have to like say it to Him.

Austin: You don't have to like say it.

Rachel: Like spell it out.

Austin: Right. But I, but, but sometimes there have been times where I've prayed like- "God, I want to admit to you I have been prideful." Okay? Like, "I have been judgemental. I have been angry." And I have felt a visceral release when I'm willing to tell God those things, even though I know He already knows them. and so, I don't wanna be anxious with God. I don't wanna be anxious with you, I don't wanna be anxious with me, with anyone. I definitely don't wanna be anxious with God. But I know that when I confess to God what I'm feeling, what I'm going through, what I'm dealing with, it creates more relationship, with God and I. Or that, that's what I feel. And when I feel, it helps me understand more of the richness of the human experience God designed for us. I know that the more that I'm willing to feel pain, sorrow, sadness, it allows me to experience a new level of joy, a new level of happiness, a new level even sexual connection, right?

Like, the more that I have become, someone who can feel my sadness, the more sexual I felt. You know? And I realized in our early marriage that was a problem I had, just 'cause I didn't think I was allowed to feel sad. You know? And so, just like you didn't really think you were allowed to feel angry. And as we both supported each other in that way, it enabled our sex life to flourish. Because again, if you kink the hose in one place, you kink it everywhere, right? And so, I really realized that my faith started to transform when not only would I share things with God and I would feel things, but also when I would take responsibility with God.

Rachel: Mm-hmm. So what you're saying is unkink to get kinky.

Austin: Yes. Unkink to kink. You should put that on there. I didn't wanna say it on here. I didn't want someone to steal that idea. That's a good idea, isn't it?

Rachel: That's a good idea.

Austin: Bet you'd like to know. You'll fi you'll know at some point. WWW dot dot com. and so- Shoot, that might have given it away.

Rachel: Yeah, it

Austin: I might have to edit that out.

Rachel: Yeah, you should.

Austin: Okay, so yes. you kink to kink. yes. I'll just edit that. Whatever. I'll find a part to edit that out. But also, when I take responsibility- 'cause I know God knows I'm thinking it. But I want God to know I'll say it. "God, I take responsibility for this." "It wasn't, it wasn't Satan, it wasn't a demon, it wasn't this. I chose to do that." Like, "I gave into my flesh, I gave into my weaknesses. God, I did X, Y, and Z, and I'm sorry. I wanna be a better man than that. I want your love to flow through me to the world like it, like, like no one else. And I take responsibility for these outcomes that I'm asking you to rescue me from." Because God, I think, is more apt to rescue us when we've learned a lesson. 'Cause if, if a if all I'm doing is blaming Billy over here

Rachel: It's true

Austin: Why would God rescue me if- I'm at fault but I'm blaming Billy over here. Okay? So I really believe in my faith journey, the more I'm able to tell God the truth even though I know He knows it, the more I'm willing to feel my feelings. Okay? Even it, it When Lazarus died, Jesus cried. Okay? Jesus felt things. literally the s the short description in the Bible is Jesus wept. Okay? And the more that I'm willing to take responsibility before God, it changes me. And then even though I know God knows it all, I feel less fear in approaching God's throne, because I know He is good, I know He loves me and I know that I'm not holding back from Him. And that, of course, directly translates to our marriage, our friendships, relationships, all those things.

Rachel: Mm, yeah. And the number-one thing that people say, you know, when we're wa we're walking them through them, helping them speak the truth, feel the feeling, you know, take action, take responsibility, is they always feel lighter.

Austin: Yeah. They always feel 100 pounds lighter.

Rachel: You know? We'll t we'll walk them through and it's like, "Do this until you feel a shift." And then they'll, "Oh, I felt a shift." And then, you know, I ask, "Well, what are you feeling?" Or, "What do you feel?" And it's, "Oh, I feel lighter."

Austin: Yeah. "I feel lighter. I feel better." And, and we believe that gift is from God. So

Rachel: His yoke is easy.

Austin: His yoke is easy and His burden is light.

Rachel: His burden is light.

Austin: That's right. And our confidence in Him Let me rephrase that. Our confidence in God will overshadow the fear that keeps us from facing anxiety. And then when we face the anxiety, because we know God comes with us and fights our battles with us and for us, then we'll win against the battle of anxiety. all right. So now we're gonna pause our episode and give our nonprofit shout-out. So today we're going to shout out the Advice and Aid Pregnancy Center. it's actually here in Kansas City. this is an amazing organization. We actually got to emcee one of their fundraisers

Rachel: We did. That was so fun

Austin: Years ago. Yeah, a cousin of mine, was their business development person there. And, and so, we got to go emcee this really incredible event. And so they are a 100% free resource for expectant mothers. they do pregnancy testing, ultrasounds. they give, baby supplies, parent education, case working, and ongoing support for expectant mothers. So, and really they're sort of the, I don't wanna say antithesis of Planned Parenthood, but they are coming, up against, the evil that is Planned Parenthood. and so their goal is that, hey, if you're a mother and you're pregnant and you need help, you need resources, and, you wanna keep that baby, and we, we pray that you do they're gonna come alongside you, and they're going to help you in every single way that they can. So, we love this organization. We want you to pause this episode. Go to adviceandaid.com, okay? Adviceandaid.com. And, we want you to donate, even if it's $5, $5,000, whatever it is. but we want you just to drop them a few bucks.

Every dollar counts. Because if you could imagine being a young expectant mother and not knowing what to do, who to turn to how to get through this next season of life, even $5, would matter to you. $5 could be the difference between not eating and eating that day. it might even be the hope, in their heart to decide whether they're gonna keep a child or not. Okay? and we believe that unborn life is life. and we, we are, we stand, as you guys probably imagine, we stand, very pro-life, here at CCM. and so we love this organization. take a minute, go donate a few dollars to them, and then come back to the episode, as we wrap up. So

Rachel: Yeah. So

Austin: So Rachel

Rachel: Ooh.

Austin: Ooh. Yeah.

Rachel: So

Austin: I'm gonna flip the script on you here a little bit. So Rachel, what is the big action item for today?

Rachel: All right.

Austin: What are we gonna leave everyone with? So that when we walk away from this episode, which has maybe been, you know, fire hose out of the mouth a little bit, um

Rachel: A lot to take in, yeah.

Austin: That's how the saying goes, right? Fa mouth, fire hose.

Rachel: Dr like drinking from a fire hose.

Austin: Yeah, drink, yeah, yeah, yeah. Drinking from the fire hose.

Rachel: There's a lot of information to digest.

Austin: Yeah. What would you say is a, a great action item for today?

Rachel: Yeah. So your big action item is next time you feel anxiety, ask yourself two questions. One, are you stepping into who God says you are? And two, is that spurring you on to taking inventory to what truly causes anxiety? So one, are you stepping into who God says you are? And two, is that spurring you on to taking inventory to what truly causes anxiety? So ask yourself those two questions or re-listen to this episode a few times.

Austin: Yep. And, and, and part of that second question is going back through what am I not saying? What am I not feeling? What am I not owning? Okay, that's the inventory, you know? And so we just want you guys to just develop a new pattern, okay? A new response. When you feel anxiety, like Rachel said, ask yourself that question, "Am I resting in who God made me? Okay, am I stepping into His identity fully? And is that stepping into spurring me on to doing the work?" Okay? So I can pray as it depends on God, I can work as if it depends on me, and somewhere in the intersecting of those two great forces somewhere between, at the intersection of those two amazing forces, God is going to come through for you, as He partners with us, like He does in a lot of things. So thank you all for watching this episode today. this was a really fun topic to talk about 'cause again, this is something we, we talk about all the time.

You know? And so we hope today was helpful. please drop a comment below. We love when people drop comments in the videos, that's if you're watching on YouTube, because it just gives us a chance to interact, with all of you and just to share ideas and thoughts. And, and if there's any way we can pray for you, drop a prayer request on the wall. If there's a topic you'd love covered, drop a comment with a topic. Again, let us know where you're from. We just love hearing from you. We love interacting with you. And, we, like we said earlier in the episode too, we travel around and we speak at churches, and we host marriage retreats and workshops and all kinds of things. We would love to come visit you. We would love to come hang out with you at your church. So you can learn more about that at consciouschristianmarriage.com. But we love you, we pray for you daily. Thanks for watching this episode, and we'll see you on the next one.