I Love My Spouse So Much, Why Do They Drive Me Nuts Sometimes?

Transcribed from the episode audio and lightly edited for readability. Speaker labels are automated and may occasionally be off.

Rachel: Hi everyone, and welcome to the Conscious Christian Marriage Podcast. We are your hosts, Rachel and Austin Holt.

Austin: Hey, hey.

Rachel: And thank you for tuning in today. We are excited to share today's topic with you, and hopefully have some fun.

Austin: Yeah, we're gonna have some fun. That's, that's for sure. all right, well, let's start off with appreciations. So, and, I'm gonna go first. So- Rachel, one thing I really appreciate you for is the fact that even though, like, we have different strengths in how we approach, like projects and getting things done, even though we do things kinda differently, like, you are really flexible and like, just really adaptable. And so, like for example, like I love to get things like 90% done, and then it's very easy for me to wanna move on. And we have some huge prog projects right now, like stuff that's taking like six months to a year to get done. And it's just so easy for me to be like, "90%, all right, I wanna move on." And you're so good at taking things from like 90 to 100%, and like getting things across the finish line, like in a really great, excellent way. And I really appreciate that about you, because it's a skill that you have.

And I'm not just thanking you for like a transactional skill. I, I want to really appreciate how even though you know for me sometimes, I can feel like checked out, like I wanna move on from this project, that doesn't like diminish your excitement in taking it from like 90 to 100%. So like we work really well because of that. And I just love the synergy and flow where you like love me for only liking to get things to like 90%, and then you can still like enjoy you taking things like the rest of the micro way. You know, 'cause I like to just be kinda macro, big picturey, and you love to like nurture all the detail, which is like the masculine and the feminine, which is really cool. But I just appreciate that you're like that, and that you're flexible, and you understand me and give grace to me. And we just work really well that way. So I appreciate you for that.

Rachel: Thanks, I receive that. I specifically am benefiting from this wonderful thing that you blessed me with. So I appreciate you for your commitment to living a life of excellence in every area. And specifically today, I'm thankful, I'm shouting out specifically your commitment to our health. To your health, and to leading us really well, in every single area. So it's not just how we eat, how we exercise, how we show up for our kids, how active we are. It's, you know, red light therapy. It's when I, you know, had my re-concussioning concussion. you doing the deep dive on what supplements I need to be taking, what things can help me heal, what things can help my eyes, my vision, my headaches. And, the acupuncture and everything. Literally, you know, listeners, he told me this. He goes, "No matter what it is, whatever you need, we'll go to Japan for the weird," you know, what'd you say? The treatment

Austin: For any crazy experimental treatments

Rachel: Yeah. We'll fly to Japan. Whatever you need, like, we're gonna do it, and I'm gonna support you. And that really blesses me, and has blessed me. And my concussion symptoms have been getting better, thanks to God healing me. Totally believe in Him for healing. And thanks to you for supporting me, because the last thing I wanted to do, or could do, really, is focus on a screen and try to like read and think and figure out what I needed. So thank you. I feel so cared for. And know that I can just trust your masculine to like get the job done and support me really well. So thank you.

Austin: Bam. You're welcome. Little bit of context on that. Rachel had a couple bad concussions back in college playing soccer. And the other day, our two-year-old just like slammed a door into her head. She And I was actually on the phone with you.

Rachel: He was happy.

Austin: He was happy.

Rachel: He's just so busy

Austin: He's

Rachel: He didn't see me bend over.

Austin: Yeah. He's so busy. He is, and he's such a, a freaking warrior. Like everything is a slam a break, a snap. And, and so yeah, I was on the phone with you, and she's like getting into this cabinet. And all of a sudden I heard- "Mowiewoo," bam. You know? And, Rachel crying. For 10 minutes later, I find out that, her head got slammed in a door with a really, you know heavy door. So

Rachel: Very

Austin: So there's a Yeah, so we're basically just diving into

Rachel: Healing my brain.

Austin: Yeah. And we're, we're counting on God. And I already believe God has healed a lot of this. And so we're allowing We're not allowing, like we have to give God permission. But we're seeking God for His part. And like we're allowing all that timeline for Him to heal you. And we're doing our best. You know, like Saint Augustine said, "Pray as if it depends on God, work like it depends on us." So while God is healing your brain and your vision and all that, we're getting supplements and acupuncture. And we might go to Japan for some experimental surgery we don't know about yet. But we'll see. But I appreciate your appreciation. And it's my honor, truly, to do anything and everything it takes for you. For your health, your heart, your mind, your soul, your strength, your body. Whatever you need, I got you.

Rachel: Thanks.

Austin: I got you. one thing I wanted to do, too, just before we actually go on with today's lesson is, this is a, a really, really cool story. So, a friend of mine that I went to high school with actually sent Rachel and I a really beautiful message today on Facebook. And I just really believe in God's timing. I believe that all good things come from God. I really do believe that there's no accidents, there's no coincidences. Like it is God working. It is God intermingling His divinity in our world, 'cause we invite that, you know? Like we know we have free will, but we give our free will back to God. Like we invite God's divinity and His sovereignty into our life in all things. And so I really believe that God intermingles in our, our world. And makes beautiful, amazing things happen. And so just in full disclosure for everyone, watching this or listening to this podcast, so, like, Mondays is our day where we record, and then we also, we plan out our week, we get caught up on our schedules, our calendars, our to-do lists everything.

And we just kinda have, like, a catch-up meeting. It's because we don't believe in doing business stuff all evenings and all weekends and all that, so we save up all of our business discussions, and we have them on Mondays. Well, so we got here early this morning, and we sat down to record, and we just felt out of flow, you know? And that's okay. There's no judgment with that. We just felt out of flow.

Rachel: The time change was this weekend.

Austin: Yeah, the time change was this weekend, and

Rachel: Our kids stayed up so late.

Austin: Yeah. They I don't know what was up

Rachel: Just love them

Austin: With them this weekend. Like, they wouldn't take naps quite right. They wouldn't get to bed quite right. And so, and then of course getting up super early for church and lost an hour there. And so anyways, and so this morning we sat down in here to record. I mean, all the lights on, all the cameras on, everything ready to go. Rachel all com completely beautified. which that, you know, hey, that's that's part of the prep. Not that you need any prep 'cause you're

Rachel: There we are.

Austin: You literally You're actually more beautiful the closer I get to you. See, that's not the case with a lot of people.

Rachel: Oof.

Austin: Sometimes they only look good from

Rachel: Well

Austin: Like, 30, 40 feet away

Rachel: Thank you for that.

Austin: But the closer I get, the more beautiful you become. But, anyway, so we're sitting here, getting ready to do our thing, and we just felt out of flow. We just couldn't really get in flow around, the podcast today. And so we're like, "Hey, you know what? We probably need to catch up more. We need to get more connected." there's, like, we just need to kind of re-download all of our thoughts and things. And so

Rachel: I need to flush a few things out.

Austin: Flush a few things out.

Rachel: Just

Austin: You know?

Rachel: Chh, chh.

Austin: That's right, emotional chh.

Rachel: Gabe- Lewis. Chh. Office reference.

Austin: And so we're like

Rachel: Flush

Austin: "Hey, let's do this." Yes. is that The Office?

Rachel: Yeah. Gabe Lewis, he's like- "Flush"

Austin: "flush," right

Rachel: To Dwight.

Austin: So we decided Oh, my gosh, great memory. we're like, "All right. You know what? We're gonna go to brunch, and we're going to, catch up. We're gonna just connect." And then Rachel had a coaching call with all the wives in our program, which was amazing,

Rachel: Always amping me up

Austin: As I, as I heard from you. Yes. Yeah, I wasn't on the call. I'm a husband. and so had a, amazing call, and then, we came back in here and just back in flow, really connected. And that's when we love, like, to do this kind of thing because we believe this ministry is the most important, and so when we're in flow, we can do other things. So literally as we're prepping to record this episode, I get this message from a friend of mine that, I went to high school with. Her name is Stephanie. and she's, is, an amazing person, owns businesses. She's a mother and a wife, and just Anyways, I just can't believe how perfectly timed this was, this message because Rachel and I really do have a heart to try to bless people through this podcast. And so this message just came, like, at the perfect time and actually just really re-solidified the fact that we were, like, listening for the Spirit and really felt like, "Hey, let's just pause this morning and come back."

Okay, so we got this message from my friend Stephanie. She said, "Hey, Austin. It's been so long since we've talked. Can't believe how fast time goes. Just wanted to say I've enjoyed the content you and Rachel have shared over the years and just recently started listening to your podcast. Just finished episode four. There is so much good content. I am so impressed by you both. I know it takes a lot of time and effort to prepare and present that, and I appreciate you both for taking the time to create this podcast. Rachel is such an amazing woman of God, and I hope I get to talk with her in person someday. She is the kind of lady I want as a friend, but women like that are hard to find. Amen. I really got a lot from episode four as I am currently running two businesses and starting a third. Juggling that along with kids and marriage is no easy feat. There are tons of things I could say, but just wanted to say thank you to you both.

I hope we can attend one of your events and chat sometime." This just really meant a lot to me, you know? And so it's, like, a great reminder that, people are listening, you know, and that all of you, a you know, us and, and anyone who wants to try to make an impact, people are watching. They're watching. They're listening. They're studying you. and it just goes to show that everything we do, we wanna do as if we're doing it for the Lord. And we wanna do it with excellence because, there are people out there, you know, that, are affected by you, whether you like it or not. And I just really appreciate my friend, my good old friend Stephanie for just taking the time to send this message because it really blessed us. It really encouraged me and just energized me to, to produce this episode today. And, it just feels really great, and by great, I mean just joyful. You know, thankful, humbled, all the things, to just get to make an impact in people's lives.

And so, thank you for taking the time to reach out to us. It really, it really blesses us. And, I just really believe that, like, the Spirit of God probably put that on her heart at that time. And it just happened to line up. It's not, it's not a just happen. It's God's orchestration. I believe that, so thank you, Stephanie.

Rachel: Yeah. Thank you, Stephanie, and I really appreciate what you said because And it blesses me because that's something I'm, very intentional on is, is female friendships. And I think so many women, probably a lot of the listeners, can relate to those really meaningful female friendships can be really hard to find. And I've experienced that in my life. I mean, I remember when we traveled and did all these trainings, and one in s in particular, when we came back, after a 10, 10 days being gone train intensive training. I came back, and I was almost depressed. It's like the one time that I really was like, "Wow, I, I think I'm depressed," because it was such an emotional reaction I had to realizing I'm alone, at least that was the story I had is like I'm alone in this. Nobody else understands this. All those people were at the training, and nobody in my community knows this stuff. And so that's why we've be been really intentional to create community, to, be able to share this with you all because it's really important to surround yourself with like-minded people and have that support system of really great female friendships.

And I think more f women struggle with not having deep, meaningful friendships than- Any of us probably think

Austin: Yeah. Well, and part of that's because we're surrounded by a world that is very surface level is very thin, you know? And where there's lots of just kind of rah, rah, patronizing for women, you know versus like, "Hey," like, "let's go deep. Let's get real. Let's talk about the struggles of, of marriage, of parenting all, all those things," you know? And so

Rachel: Yeah, and from a place of learning to take personal responsibility and create what you want

Austin: Y

Rachel: And grow.

Austin: And so that's something that's a big cornerstone of what we do, like even in our, our, our coaching membership, where we have couples all over the country, working with us. Part of what comes with that is there's a husbands community and a wives community. And I can say, like, that's some of my favorite part is just getting to deep dive, you know, with husbands like it is for you and the wives. Which the wives group is just, like, amazing. Like, it's even It's way more active than the guys group. You know, it just totally speaks to the feminine nature. But it's so important to have aligned people, you know? And like you said earlier, you know, when you said, it's great to, you know, be with like-minded people. A lot of the world is gonna say, "Oh, you don't want echo chambers," and stuff like that. but that's, that's actually bad advice, you know? And, and so I really believe that as Christians, we are to be in community with other people that are like-minded.

And by like-minded, I mean biblically driven spiritually driven, truth driven people. You know, and within that, there's different perspectives. There's different angles. You know, we teach on heart, soul, mind, strength, and so we kinda integrate faith with although also, al- I can say also. I know I can. I can do it.

Rachel: It was cute.

Austin: Thank you. there are other perspectives, you know and there are amazing things that God has given us, tools to navigate the psyche, and the heart, and the mind, and the spirit, and how that all comes together. That's what we call integration, you know, kind of the spiritual-physical integration. But we should be with people who are aligned. You know? And everyone said, "Well, you need to be with people that have all kinds of different perspectives," and all this, and I get that, you know? And it's, it's good to know different perspectives and, and know, how things work. I think that's important. We are called to be in community with like-minded- Christ-centered people. that's what the church is for. That's what our communities are for. That's how we strengthen each other with the word of God. That's how we reinforce each other with that Christ-centric, those, those aligned values in our community. And so I think it's really important, like anyone watching this, if you don't have community, you are missing out.

You know, it's like people that say they can be a Christian and not go to church. You know? And yeah, there You can connect with God outside of church, do not get me wrong. But we actually just produced an episode on this, about should our life revolve around the church? Should our life revolve around the body of Christ is actually what that means, and the answer is yes. Our lives should revolve around the body of Christ. Because when we're disconnected from the body, we're disconnected from so many different aspects of our spiritual growth. And so for everyone watching this, I just really wanna encourage you, find community. You know? And you can find community with us. You can find community with other, other, other people. But if you're not in constant conversation and in constant relationship, deep, meaningful, purposeful relationship, you're missing out. You're 100%- missing out.

Rachel: What you said, as iron sharpens iron, made me think of it's not iron sharpens pewter or copper. It's two like-minded, you know it's like we're both growing. Here's this. Here's this perspective. Here's this. But you're both aligned in that perspective. And that's how you're able to sharpen each other.

Austin: Yeah. And, and because we are equally yoked. So that's powerful. love all that just kinda stemmed from this message.

Rachel: I, that, yeah.

Austin: We're not even on today's topic yet. But, Stephanie, thank you. Really appreciate you, for, for what you shared. It really blessed us, so And thanks for just being in tune with, you know, when God said, "Send a Facebook message." I mean, how cool was that? So. All right, so today, we're gonna answer a question, a question that actually gets submitted pretty often. we have answered this question a lot of times from a lot of different perspectives and asked a lot of different ways. And this question is interesting because I think a lot of people don't even know how to ask it. They feel it, though. They're like- "Hmm," like, "What, what am I feeling right now?" I think a lot of Christians won't ask this question. I mean, this is a central problem to the modern Christian.

Rachel: It's easy to override.

Austin: Yeah, it's easy to override is I'm scared to ask this type of question because people might think I'm not a faithful Christian for asking it. That's what gets pastors in trouble. That's what get leaders in trouble. That's what get, it gets anyone in trouble, is if I ask this question, they may not think that I pray enough. They may not think I read my Bible enough. They may not think that I'm not a very faithful person. So I'm gonna hold this in, and then the problem gets way worse. And then it's, it's like, again, the average couple waits six years too late to get help. And that's what leads to divorce, right? So here's this question. The question is- I love my spouse so much. Why do they drive me nuts sometimes? That's pretty good if you think about it, you know? I love my spouse. Why do they drive me nuts sometimes? You know, I love them. I care about them. I just, I, I'm, I'm gonna stay married to this person.

They're incredible. We're building a, a great life together. But sometimes I notice that, you know, they throw a one-pound rock at me, and it feels like 100 pounds, you know? It's like I got this invisible backpack with 99 pounds of rock in it, and they throw one at me, and I just collapse.

Rachel: I'm freaking mad.

Austin: I'm mad, right? Yeah, it's like that's felt disproportionate to what they just said or did. Or it could be, little things, like how they squeeze the toothpaste, or, you know

Rachel: Eat their string cheese

Austin: Eat their string cheese. I'm sure we've talked about it on here before. But if not we will.

Rachel: You'll hear it at an event or something.

Austin: Yeah, yeah. I don't think I let an event go by ever without talking about

Rachel: No, you don't

Austin: The way you, you used to eat string cheese. I might have, like, traumatized you out of not doing that anymore. You have permission to eat string cheese that way if you want.

Rachel: However I want.

Austin: Like a squirrel typewriter kind of thing. Anyways, anyways, so, um Yeah. I about lost my train of thought there. So, a lot of people have felt this. You know, I love this person. This person's amazing. God has definitely brought us together. Why do I have such big feelings when certain things happen. Like why does the way sometimes they talk or do things or operate or parent or et cetera, the way they spend money the way they operate in the kitchen the way they clean, wh why do those things bother me?

Rachel: The direction they walk when they move.

Austin: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, the That's right, yeah.

Rachel: Why do I bump into them this way?

Austin: Yeah. And so this is a great question because it doesn't mean you don't love your spouse. It doesn't mean that you are not a faithful Christian. it actually, is good news. It's actually a good sign. it means that, there's something going on behind the scenes that brought you together and is going to help you. So Rachel, I want you to kinda kick us off with, with this because I think you as the feminine have a really great perspective on this. So what do we call this?

Rachel: We call this the divine setup.

Austin: The divine setup.

Rachel: Which means God actually designed it this way. You know, God so desires our healing, He wants us to return to our childlike state, you know? Enter the kingdom like a child. And He wants our healing so bad, He rigged the system for us to be attracted to someone who in order to stay married to them, we have to heal.

Austin: Yeah. A a and I wanna just kinda give some homage, homage, homage, homage to, Dr. Harville Hendrix, who's the founder of, Imago therapy. He's outta Pennsylvania, which is, where a lot of these concepts kinda overlap, is just this idea that, like Rachel just said it perfectly, is that, we will be attracted to someone on a, generally on an unconscious level, that in order to stay with them, we will heal. We have to heal. We have to heal or we will either get divorced or we will numb ourselves and be frustrated forever and just live as roommates. And this is one of the biggest things that leads to divorce is not figuring out this thing, this divine setup where God has orchestrated, "Hey, this person, I'm gonna put you and you together because I know that if you s that to stay together, you'll both have to heal some of your most broken aspects of who you are." And what happens if we heal some of our most broken aspects of who we are?

Rachel: We're able to show up better. Obviously we enjoy more connect more connection, love, joy, happiness in our marriage. But we're better ministers of the gospel, we're better parents. We are way more successful in our businesses because we're not wasting our time on conflicts.

Austin: Time and energy on yeah, these pointless conflicts.

Rachel: Pain holding us back. And we return to, like I said, the state that God created us to live in. You know, when you're born, God has given you, you know, your essence, that little, that little Imagine yourself as a little, you know, three-year-old just

Austin: Who, who could do no wrong

Rachel: Unashamed, just running around, having fun.

Austin: Wants love, wants safety, wants

Rachel: Yeah. Asks for what you want. desires love, and has fun just totally being themselves. Like of my son slamming the door on my head. He had no idea it would hurt me, and he was just having fun. And I've tried to really make sure I don't talk about it around him so he doesn't know that

Austin: Aw, little Mally

Rachel: The repercussions of the concussion. Get it? Repercussions.

Austin: Repercussions. Yeah. God, God wants us to be in this place of wholeness. because when we feel whole and, when we know our, our value and our worthiness and when we experience that reparative love of Christ in our lives and we become more whole, we don't need to work out our stuff on people anymore. We don't need to work out our traumas on other people anymore. We don't need to project onto other people anymore. you know, the, the people that benefit the very most when we work on the self is every person around us. It's the reluctance to work on the self that is what screws up our communities. You know, and a lot, and a lot of people will, you know, again, they kinda boo the self. If you ever mention the self, it's like oh my gosh, you've stepped into some type of, like, you know, terrible territory. But really, the more whole we are here, all the people around us, they get better for it.

And so God knew that and designed us to operate that way, so that on one level we're trying to look for a mate that we can go through life with, we can reproduce with, we can have safety and security with, and we have attraction with, chemistry and all that. Okay, I think you're hot. Okay, still do. Did then, still do.

Rachel: Glad.

Austin: Yep, forever.

Rachel: Check.

Austin: Yes, check. Mate. Mating. Winning. Four kids.

Rachel: Full circle.

Austin: Full circle.

Rachel: You just really nailed that n get it?

Austin: Nailed that. I freaking love you. You guys know how to tell when a dad joke is a dad joke?

Rachel: 'Cause it's apparent.

Austin: 'Cause it's apparent. I love you. And so God knew this on the most intimate, powerful level. He knew that if, like, hey, I'm gonna bring these people together, and their closeness, their energy when they get together, it will bring up things. It'll bring up what is not healed. Because when people get together in relationships, all energy rises, okay? And not just all the good things, but any of the glitchy stuff. It all rises, okay? If you're, if you're cranking up the music in your stereo on your car the good notes get louder, like the good tones and the vol like all that stuff, this, the, the music gets louder, but the static gets louder. If there's any flaws in the speakers, they get louder. If there's any, messiness in the signal, it gets louder. If the, the gain goes up, the, the crunchiness goes up. You know, if you blast your stereo, the music louder, but it's like, da, da, da, da, da, da. The trunk starts rattling and all that.

Relationships are the same way. When people get together, energy goes up and everything becomes buoyant. So then all these amazing things come up. But then also all these other things start to come up, and we're like, "Oh, that's, that's interesting they do that. That kinda bothers me." And there's this thing that happens when you get, get married, we call it the unconscious transference of tr of primary caregiver, which basically means that on this unconscious level, I'm now sort of starting to project what I thought the responsibility of my parents was on you to take care of my needs. And especially without me telling you- I think you should meet these needs. And so God created us to be wired like this, where we will get together, and to stay together we'll have to heal things. And, and like you said, more than likely the very thing that you need the most from me to heal is gonna come from a broken place in me. And vice versa.

And so as I heal you, you heal me. And as you heal me, I heal you.

Rachel: And what is required for your healing is actually gonna come from a place that's difficult for me which is what he means when he says, "As I heal you, you heal me." Because in order for me to give that thing to you this is, this is the divine setup. It's likely going to be something that's difficult for me, which means I have to grow if I want to give that to you which means I get to heal as I'm healing you.

Austin: Yeah, and

Rachel: And it's this amazing upward

Austin: Yeah, it's an upwards

Rachel: Cycle

Austin: It's an upwards spiral if you're willing to get curious and humble about it. And I'm blanking now, I can't remember if it was Seneca or, Tacitus, who said this, but the obstacle is the way. And a lot of times in relationships we avoid resistance and we revo we avoid the obstacles, 'cause that's maybe how we were raised. If you were raised in a, a really avoidant environment, everything might have been sweeping under the rug. Well, anytime you sweep under a rug, if, if you brush stuff under the rug, what happens? Then when you walk on the rug, there's a lump. And it's like, "I know it's there. I'm gonna pretend that it's not." And then the lump grows. Okay? If you keep sweeping stuff under the rug, which we don't at home 'cause we're

Rachel: We lift it up to sweep.

Austin: Yeah, we lift it up and we s we sweep it out.

Rachel: Hey, that, how you do s little things is how you do big things. We lift up the rug to sweep.

Austin: Yeah. If you keep sweeping stuff under the rug, all of the sudden there becomes this mountain under the rug, and then it's so obvious there's a problem there. I feel like I can detect if there's, like, a quarter under the rug. I don't know.

Rachel: Yeah, you have Spidey senses.

Austin: Spidey senses. But and so if you grew up in a really avoidant home, the idea of this, it may be, really easy for you to just avoid altogether. Like, oh, we don't get along there. We, oh man, we kinda push each other's buttons there. Let's just avoid that and have a positive mindset and just be overly positive and never assess that stuff. We have to assess that stuff because, in the resistance is typically our greatest lessons. Okay? The obstacle is the way. Once you resolve the resistance and you resolve the obstacles, you can be in flow again. Okay? A river only stops flowing when it gets dammed up, okay? And if you never do anything about the dam, the river will never flow the same way again. And so God blessed us with a psyche, okay, that's wired this way, where y- I mean, everyone watching this, hopefully you can relate to this, where maybe your spouse says something and you can't just let it go.

Like, it just drives you nuts. And then you have this recurring cycle where you fall back into this thing. It's like, "Why can't we figure that out? Why can't we figure that out?" Part of it is you're too close to it and you need people in your world

Rachel: Wink, wink

Austin: To help you, wink wink, see what you can't see, 'cause we're too close to all of our own problems. But it's sticking for a reason. It's bothering you over and over again for a reason because God knows if you work this out, you will be better stronger, more capable, more available for me to work through you in the world.

Rachel: Mm-hmm. And one way that we help couples kind of understand this in a different perspective is that it doesn't always have to be something specifically about your spouse. In fact, a lot of it is things from your childhood, a past experience, something that was traumatic or painful that is now subconsciously running the shots. Kinda like you said, it's a 99-pound backpack. Your spouse might do something and your body's saying, "Oh, this is something that we wanna heal." So if it's quick or, or if it's a quick or charged reaction that means there's something there that

Austin: And it's young. Usually means young.

Rachel: Yes. Quick equals young. And so it's likely that something's there that God designed your body to say, "Hey, this is a big deal. Pay attention because if you work this out, you'll be better."

Austin: Yeah. And we just gotta get curious about it because if, if you experience with your spouse this, you know, again, and I love the backpack analogy, you know? A lot of us have these 99-pound backpacks on from difficult stuff from a long time ago. Could've been wounding between you and your parents, or a sibling, or even a, a past, relationship you had or even a past mentor in your life. And then if the spouse may just be Sometimes the spouse tosses 99-pound rocks, and that's in that case, that's a, that's another problem. But sometimes the spouse just kinda tosses a one-pound rock, but it lands in a backpack that you're carrying, and it it's heavy. It, it can collapse you. And so then we gotta get curious and go, "Why do I have this backpack on? How did I get this backpack, and what kinda healing do I need?" And so if you're noticing something with you and your spouse that's a recurring cycle that's maybe feels like it's difficult for you guys to resolve, like Rachel said, it may not be something that they're doing, but what they're doing acts as kind of a facsimile for what someone did a long time ago.

You know, if you grew up with a really, really critical parent, it may be really hard for you to take feedback from your spouse of any kind. Okay? If you grew up just kinda getting berated for, you know, moving your foot the wrong way walking down the walking down the hallway, well, then if your spouse ever gives you any kind of feedback, your first reaction, you know, might be to reject it or even shame them or be upset with them for giving you feedback.

Rachel: That was me really early on in our marriage. Any time you gave feedback I would f- I would freeze and freak out, like, "Oh my gosh- I'm in trouble."

Austin: Yeah. Well

Rachel: And it's crippling.

Austin: Yeah. And it's because it reminded you. Your body still carries. See, we, we, we carry our emotion in our nervous system, not in our brain. You don't feel it in your brain, you feel it in your body, okay? Your body actually keeps a score. There's a book called The Body Keeps the Score. It's really good. Your body actually carries, in your nervous system, those wounds, and we store up emotions in different places in our nervous system, okay? and so there's things that you went through as a kid, that basically your psyche's gonna go, "I'm gonna use my marriage as a way to heal." And again, that's God's goodness. That's the divine setup. Like, that's that's this match that we have with each other of there's a certain part of me that your psyche knew I would help you heal, that God would use me to heal you, and God knew that He would use you to heal me. And so we have different interactions that, again, it's old stuff.

It's an old drama with different actors. That's what, that's what a lot of our healing is. And so then we can provide I don't wanna get too technical here. but we can provide ways for the psyche and the soul to heal by doing things differently, doing things the way we always wanted it to be back then but we never got. You know, where, you know, like for example, talking about your, your concussion earlier. You know one thing that has helped you heal is that I always tell you all the time, it's never an inconvenience to take care of your physical, mental, emotional, spiritual needs. You know? And because growing up in a big house, with a lot, or a big household with a lot of kids, siblings, you know, it was easy for you to believe, and through just different actions and things, that those needs weren't always the highest priority. And so you've asked me to want to meet your needs and be vocal about it, and I've done that.

And that's helped you heal that piece that would usually be combative before.

Rachel: I literally was just talking about that on the wives call. I told them about the, the paper you made. And that for, I said, "I don't struggle with this anymore," because I know that. It's, like now settled into my nervous system because you wrote that out exactly what, you know, we reverse engineered that I needed for healing. And you wrote it out, and you told me to hang it somewhere I would see every day. So I put it on my pantry, my pantry door. And now it's in my Bible bag 'cause it's folded up just so- I can keep it forever 'cause it's amazing, but- I don't need to look at it anymore 'cause I know. So thank you.

Austin: Well, yeah.

Rachel: Just appreciating you on that, and I was bragging about you.

Austin: Nice. Thank you. Well, and so, and for us to get to that place, it required both of us to heal something. You know? And so for me, it required, healing this idea that, you had to be out of an emotional state for us to be able to work on something together. 'Cause I grew up in a household where big emotions and crying wasn't super welcomed, you know? And so, and I have, I have amazing parents, and they just parented me the best way they knew how. And, and especially in that generation, it was just like, you know, crying wasn't the way that you got through to, to, to anyone on anything. And so, I had to heal this idea that you didn't have to be out of emotion for me to support you. And because of that, it allowed us, it allowed me to grow and kind of, in increasing my capacity and ability to withstand emotional connection, like deep you know, emotional connection. And, it helped you heal, this idea that, your needs aren't important to someone else, you know?

And so just working through that together really helped us figure out personally where we had different things that would kind of upset us for different reasons. And we really figured out, okay, this is what has to heal in me so that I can support Rachel in this area, and vice versa. And it's not codependent. It's, it's, it's this idea that, God divinely set us up so that as I healed things in me, it would help support you, and vice versa. And because of that, it's enabled us to have a lot more intimacy, a lot more closeness, and a lot more impact you know, in the world. And so, but the, the point I really wanna make there is that what's going on w between you and your spouse that may feel like, "Oh my gosh, we're at an impasse. This upsets me so much. Like, I love them so much, but this the way they do this drives me nuts," it may have nothing to do with them.

They're just reminding you, okay? They just smell like a real bad meal you ate a long time ago, okay? You know, if you've ever gotten sick off of eating undercooked chicken, even just the sight of chicken might make you sick.

Rachel: Thanks, Ron Swanson.

Austin: Yeah, thank you, Ron Swanson. and it's just like that in relationships. And so this matters because, it helps us realize that we don't have to take our healing so personal, you know? It's so easy to think that it's like your spouse is attacking you, and it feels like they might be attacking you. Like, if your spouse looks at you, like go back to the critical example, and gives you feedback on something okay? They might just say, "Hey, are you open to some feedback right now?" You know, might be like, "What?" You know, or, you know, "No." But let's just say I give you feedback, and before you understand your wounds that you've carried about criticism in your past, you might think my feedback is attack. When it's not feedback, it's me just trying to help you, trying to love you. And we have agreements around feedback.

Rachel: Which I totally did early on.

Austin: Like when we were in our earlier years of marriage, I think you thought my feedback was attack because- I think you were afraid that I would withhold love from you because I had feedback for you.

Rachel: I did something wrong, yeah.

Austin: Because you did something wrong.

Rachel: Quote, "That's a story," yeah, quote, unquote for those listening.

Austin: And, and so when you understand that God made you to be attracted to both the negative and positive character traits of those who raised you and again, homage to Imago therapy, once you understand that I found you because the best parts of you are familiar and comfortable for me, and the parts of you that are not the best parts, which I love all parts of you, but the parts of you that would trigger me, okay is the way, is the way we say that, those are all my learning opportunities, okay? My psyche knew, like, I'm gonna find you, okay, C- Christ built this mind to where I'm gonna find someone that I'm gonna be able to be comfortable and safe with to a degree so that basically all these negative things, if I'm in the presence of those things, it's gonna force me to heal.

Rachel: Yeah, because all wounds need to be healed interpersonally.

Austin: Yeah, that, that's right.

Rachel: So if you're just on an island as castaway, you might think, "I'm free as a bird. Easy breezy, I'm healed, I'm whole." Because there's no mirror. There's nobody else to see.

Austin: Yeah, and there's a whole world to that idea, that, you know, you can heal all your own wounds yourself. And, and I think that you can get, you can heal interpersonal wounds personally to a degree. But I've never really met anyone that's fully been able to heal interpersonal wounding not interpersonally. You know? And, and this podcast isn't the place where we get massively tactical. That's more like what we do in our practice with, with people 'cause it's, it's more personalized than that. But, there are ways that we can heal old interpersonal wounds through this relationship now. We really do believe that marriage is the completion of childhood. And so like we said earlier, there might be a wound that, you know, Rachel carries that, I, as another human being, because I remind her of those When you get married, you- A part of you kind of becomes this caretaker. Again, it's the unconscious transference of primary caregiver. And so now her psyche starts to see me as, like, this caregiver for her.

And so if I behave in a way that's better, that's more loving, that's more gracious, that's more forgiving, that's more reparative, through our marriage I can help Rachel heal old wounds. And only when I give that healing as a gift will those neural pathways in her brain actually be willing to change so that her defenses will drop. Because what we anticipate is our pre-creation of all things. And so if Rachel anticipates that I'm gonna be unloving to her, then she'll start to project that onto me before I'm unloving. But if I can honor her and treat her in a, a way that she's never been treated before, like a better and better and better than she's ever had, with enough time her brain will stop anticipating that I will treat her in an unloving way and then she doesn't have to project that onto me, so we can just be in flow. Which is really, sort of, kind of part of the big answer here.

You know? Is that we can give each other what we want to heal, and by doing that, we change the way we anticipate each other's behavior. Which is really powerful. All right. So, we've gone over some examples, just little bits of examples, just kind of as we've been talking here. But what would be a What's the first example that comes to your mind, maybe with another couple we've worked with just kind of figure out one of their matches, kind of divine setup type things that they healed from. what would be a good example you can think of?

Rachel: Well, one particular couple that comes to mind, they had diff very different upbringings in the sense of how they did conflict. So kind of like you said, one, you know, the husband's family, they just swept things under the rug, kind of avoided the conflict. And, you know, it was just better just to, "better" quote unquote to avoid it and to just pretend it's not there. And so he would try to not start things, try to just be cool, try to not engage in the conversation. Where she, on the other hand, her upbringing was just everybody yelled. And in fact, so much that that was the only time she ever felt connected to her family was when everyone was yelling. That was the most connection they ever had. And so they would get into arguments, and she realized that she would push and push and push and push and push him. You know, he was the avoidant. She was more the one pursuing him to try to connect.

But she was, she was yelling so much that it would then finally trigger him, and then they'd be like, "Why are we yelling?" until they realized, "Oh, okay, so this is what I need to heal." "This is what you need to heal. This was from my past." "That wasn't how I wanna handle things, and this is what f was from my past." "I don't wanna handle things this way either." And so they've learned how to communicate and how to help each other heal in that way. And they don't experience that anymore which is really amazing.

Austin: Yeah. And yeah, part of that for them was kinda healing some of that masculine/feminine disconnect there too. You know? Where, where he was able to, embrace, you know, her femininity, like her energy as the feminine, you know? Because for him, in his household growing up, it was like the mom was the thermostat. If she was not doing well, the whole family wasn't doing well. If she was, if she was doing great, the whole family did great. And so it was very hard for him to, like, engage in that, like, feminine kind of whirlwind. And so as he healed that part of himself, it actually enabled him to support her big emotions. And then as she healed that part of herself where it was like, "I can actually trust the masculine," because her dad was not a trustworthy man. Once she kinda healed that wound in herself of like, "I can surrender to the masculine," like, "I, I can, I can trust the masculine," when she healed that part in herself, it enabled her, her to approach him in a way, gentler, more honoring way.

And so they both figured out, like, "Oh, for us to stay together, I'm gonna have to figure out my attachment to the feminine, and I'm gonna have to figure out my negative attachment to the masculine and realize that, I am loved no matter what." And that love and the healing, the repair of those wounds enabled them to end that cycle together. You know? And so, but if when they experienced that resistance, if they would've ignored it and overrode it and just been like, "Nope, we're not gonna talk about that. We're not gonna b talk about the way that we have-"

Rachel: Or like, "We'll just forgive each other and move on."

Austin: Yeah, yeah. "I'm, I'm not gonna " You know? And so, and, and I get what you're saying there. You can forgive each other. We're, we're not saying don't do that, but a lot of times we override, and we say, "Oh, I just forgive you," but really you don't. And there's a, a, a, a a glaring cycle there that needs healing.

Rachel: There's no game plan introspection, learning.

Austin: Yeah, because a lot of times we're just taught, "Oh, just forgive and move on." Well, that's literally not how we're wired. For better or for worse, you can call it human nature or not, you can call it sinful nature or not, whatever you wanna call it, but for better or for worse, if you ignore and override pain and emotion, and you're not transparent, and you don't feel your feelings and you don't tell the truth, and you don't allow the spirit of God to, to, to come into every nook and cranny of your life and psyche those will just blow up, you know? Sometimes saying, you know, "I forgive you," doesn't actually come from a place of essence. It comes from a place of survival. From a household where the priority was to end the conflict and not go through the conflict. 'Cause again the obstacle is the way. You know? And so if you find in your marriage where there's obstacles and you lean into those obstacles, that's when powerful change can take place.

And so, you know, and the interesting example from our marriage I think about is just, and I'll paraphrase this a little bit, is just some of the tension that we have experienced in when- You get really, this is not present day, but when you used to get really stressed, it was easy for you to just have kind of victimy tendencies. You know, and your victimy tendencies kinda triggered in me this, like, memory and this kinda wounding of, like, I was just always I felt like I was always blamed for things as a kid. Like, I was a young boy. I, you know, I was kind of always a little mischievous.

Rachel: Rambunctious.

Austin: And all I had were sisters, and a lot of times everyone would kinda gang up on me, and I'd get in trouble, and I'd be sent to my room and all that. And so k and they'd kinda, you know, cry the victim, and which that's just a developmental thing a lot of young kids do. And, and so, you know, sometimes when you would act victimy, it would really anger me. 'Cause I'd be like, "You're just trying to blame me for your problems- 'cause that's what happened to me as a kid, and I got in big trouble for it." Well, then I'd get frustrated, and then my frustration would trigger you in thinking that I'm more concerned with being right than, than having connection with you. And so we each healed something in this. You healed this idea that you're stronger and more powerful than you think you are, and I healed this idea that connection can come before correction. 'Cause for me growing up, it, the, it was y always the order was correction and then connection.

And I was actually able to heal that piece in me in knowing that, like, hey, you and I can actually be connected before we figure out what went wrong. And so because of that, it really changed the way that we interacted as a couple. All right. Well, yeah, so let's go ahead and pause and do our nonprofit shout-out. So who are we shouting out?

Rachel: Today is Convoy of Hope, so you can go to convoyofhope.org, or click the link in the podcast description. They're an incredible organization that does disaster relief. They, feed kids. They do agricultural, women's empowerment. Even rol rural initiatives. They do so much around the world. We personally have seen them at many, during many natural disasters being first responders, boots on the ground, doing things to really be the hands and feet of Jesus. So we love them.

Austin: Yeah. Well, and this is kind of a dual shout-out, too. one of their, leaders within the organization is, is Heath Adamson, and he's one of my favorite speakers, favorite authors. he actually was an inspiration to me very early on in starting to learn Hebrew. And one time he came to our church, and he gave a sermon, about the priestly pray prayer in Numbers. And, that was one of the, one of the first things I learned in Hebrew, and just, I just, have a lot of respect for him, and he's just done an amazing job representing Convoy of Hope. And so, yeah, go check out their website. Donate a few bucks or a few million, and, and just, let's just, let's just use our network here to just bless.

Rachel: Okay, so Austin, what is the big takeaway for today?

Austin: Mm. The big takeaway is this, is when you find that there is a cycle with your spouse where, the way they cope with stress triggers you, or the way that you cope with stress triggers them, or you just, you, you found that there is a, just a, a disconnect, I want you to take a deep breath, pause, and be thankful that God is leading you to a healing and learning opportunity with this person. Is that you have the awareness to lean in and first notice the issue so that God can bring healing to it. So notice the issue, get curious about it, and then begin conversations, about how you and your spouse can heal so that you can better support each other and you can just become better, more whole, healed, integrated human beings. But smile. It s seems crazy, but it's like, I always think about James 1:2, "Consider it pure joy when you face trials of many kinds, for the testing of your faith, faith develops perseverance."

When you feel those trials in your marriage, when you feel that disconnect, you're like, "What the heck? I love them, but, like, why are they driving me nuts? Like, we keep, like, butting heads on this thing," that's an opportunity for you to lean in and find something that needs healing. Because once you heal that thing, whatever that is for you two your marriage will get stronger, and it will get better and more fun and more energetic and more exciting, and God'll be able to use it to do amazing things. So notice it, get curious, open up conversation. And of course, we have lots of ways and resources to help you with those conversations, so reach out to us anytime. But that's pretty much it for today. So, thanks for tuning in with us today and being a part of this episode. we love and appreciate all of you listeners. Be sure to like and subscribe. Click the little bell on, on YouTube or whatever service you're listening to so that you can get notifications, when we release new content.

But, we're always here for you, always praying for you. Have a great, rest of your week, and we'll see you on the next episode.