How We Parent (and What Actually Works)

Transcribed from the episode audio and lightly edited for readability. Speaker labels are automated and may occasionally be off.

Austin: If all they see you as someone who spanks them, shames them, comes down on them, whatever, then ultimately they're just gonna become deceptive. And you might think, "Oh, I have these perfectly well-behaved little kids that just, they're quiet and docile." But what's gonna start happening as they get older and older, you're gonna realize how much they're doing behind your back. Because they're not coming to you anymore. They don't feel safe with you anymore. And our role as parents is that we maintain enough bond and relationship and rapport with our kids that no matter how big they s have screwed up, they will come to you and be like, "Mom, Dad, I messed up." Welcome to the Conscious Christian Marriage podcast, where we help driven Christian couples create a thriving Christ-centered marriage. We are your hosts, Austin and Rachel Holt, and we're excited to be in the studio today.

Rachel: Yes, welcome to the podcast. We're glad that you're taking time, tuning in, and listening to level up your marriage one podcast episode at a time. We've had a slight hiatus here on the podcast, and, we're super happy to be back in the studio and excited for today's content because it's a very important topic for a marriage. In fact, it can actually make or break a marriage if you are y navigating this topic well or not

Austin: Or not

Rachel: Navigating it well.

Austin: And I feel like this one is I mean, it's always something on our radar. Like, I feel like, I mean, we have couples or c conversations with couples almost every single day about this topic, and I think that it's actually underestimated how effective it can be in your marriage to really have a game plan for this and to be on the same page together, and we'll get into all that here in just a second. But today's topic's gonna be relevant to a vast majority of the population. And if it's not relevant to you yet hopefully it will be at some point. And, and ultimately, even if I'll just go ahead and say the topic. We're gonna talk about parenting today. So even if you don't have biological children of your own or adopted children of your own, you are gonna interact with kids. And so everything that we're gonna talk about today is not just for people with their own children but it could be for people who interact with kids.

And unless you live on an island called No Child Island, more than likely you're interacting with kids, whether it's at home or in the neighborhood or at your church or even at your job or at the gas station, you're gonna interact with kids. So today's episode is gonna help you understand parenting, but it's also gonna really help you understand children and the relationship that's happening between adults and children and what's going on. So. We're excited to jump into it today. So Rach, let me, let me kick it off with asking you a question. Why is the subject of parenting You know, this is predominantly a marriage podcast, but today we're talking about just diving right into parenting. Why is parenting such an important, topic to cover for Christian couples?

Rachel: Yeah. Well, if you have kids, they are a large part of your life, a large part of your conversations, a large part of, the things going on within your home. And so if you do not have clear agreements, then you're not going to be on the same page. And so it's really important to have clear agreements, clear game plan, and be on the same page because kids know when you're not, and they will

Austin: So you can't wing it. You just can't wing it.

Rachel: No. You can't wing it. Yeah. They know when you are not, and they will use that to their advantage. And also, we want to model a Christ-like marriage, which is being a unified front and having clear agreements and having safety and boundary. That's another reason why it's so important, is because your kids need it. They need boundaries. They need to know that your yes means yes, your no means no, and your yes is the same yes as Dad's and Dad's no is the same no as Mom's. Like, you're on the same page.

Austin: So even in great marriages, like even in great marriages between a, a great Christian man and a great Christian woman, how are they struggling with parenting? Like, what do we still see, like, across the board when we're working with couples? So, like, for anyone who's listening today that's like, "Hey," like, "we're a solid couple and parenting is still hard," and a lot of people are secretive about that because there's shame. Like, we know that. So even for the Christian couple that is kind of crushing it, what types of parenting struggles are they still struggling with?

Rachel: I think one of the biggest things is swinging the pendulum from how they were raised. I think it's so easy for us to, if we experienced a domineering parent or we experienced trauma from a painful, you know, spanking or yelling or anything, a lot of parents, and Christian parents especially, with some of the newer information we know about what spanking and what yelling does to children, they swing the pendulum and they give no consequences and no follow through. I think that is the number one issue with the current day parents because a lot of us are waking up to, okay, that didn't work, that wasn't right, that wasn't okay. That's actually not biblical when we look at the text and the meaning of the text. But it doesn't mean we don't give discipline. Like a father gives good discipline, like our heavenly Father gives good discipline and consequences to our actions. And I think a lot of Christian parents are not equipping their kids to go out in the real world and to realize you need to respect authority.

You need to mean what you say and say what you mean and follow through and do it. That's modeled by parents and how we follow through with what we say. Like, "Hey, don't do that. Oh, you did, so now you We're following through with a consequence." And, you know, being able to have a job, to have healthy relationships, to honor others, to, understand emotional regulation, to understand, oh, I'm going to be aware of others and consider others. And I think that's the pendulum that gets swung is parents are not giving enough consequences, and they're trying to be- Wri right, like everything that we're talking about today, we understand and know and have grace for the fact that that's, it happens. I've done it and you're so gracious and loving with your leadership to say, "Hey, I know, honey, because you were yelled at and spanked, like you might be swinging the pendulum and the kids obey me better than you." You've said this in many seasons where you're like, "The kids obey me better than you because I follow through, and I mean it, and I'm firm.

I'm not mean, but I'm firm." And, and then I've tightened up on my follow-through, and then it's actually way quicker and easier than I think a lot of parents think because when we start to give consequences, it can be so bad and our kids can r like react so emotionally that then that triggers us, and we have a hard time staying calm. And that's a big, like struggle for parents, too, is their own emotional regulation and their own modeling of composure which is essential for really Christ-centered marriage or Christ-centered parenting.

Austin: Parenting, yeah. You cannot correct children if you're not composed. Yeah, period. Because if you try to correct them while you're not composed, like if you're super angry, if you're mad, as you know, and I Probably everybody listening here today knows, but just to remind them, then the only thing they're gonna remember from that interaction is that they're scared of you. And when our kids are scared of us, they won't come to us for the most important things of their life. You know, and even thinking about the old ways of parenting where it was like your kids need to be docile. They need to just obey and be quiet and not be rambunctious and not all this. Well, all the data's coming out now, you know, that really talks about, what a healthy kid looks like and what an unhealthy kid looks like. And for anybody listening to the podcast today, I just want you to understand that everything we're sharing today is with a ton of grace.

It's with a ton of love. And we are not judging people for how they've parented up until this point. And so our encouragement is that today you just try on what we're gonna share and see if it works in your life and really give it an actual try. But if we say something today that you're like, "Oh, my gosh. I can't believe they said that. That's, that's not what we do, or that's not what I think the Bible says or what that scripture means," like just take a deep breath. Ask the Holy Spirit to really fill your heart as you listen today because, you know, a lot of our parents and the parents of those listening, we're told by pediatricians and child psychologist experts

Rachel: And Christian leaders

Austin: And, and Christian leaders and pastors that, you know, he who loves his child disciplines them. Scripture is not saying he who loves his child beats their child with a belt. that's not what scripture's saying. Discipline is a form of leadership. It's who leads their children and gives them consequences to teach them. And, you know, we believe a lot in natural consequences. That's why, you know, our kids have learned what they have learned is because we do allow them to have some natural consequences and then the consequences we impose on them. But ultimately, our model that we're gonna teach you guys today, our kids choose their consequences. And that's, that's different. And so, like, it's different from the, the normal parenting model, and we'll get into that. But, you know, again, just going back to this idea that most people listening today, they've been told a certain way their whole life, and if you're not content with how the relationship between you and your parents are going, you should consider trying a different way.

You know, like if, if

Rachel: Like you and your kids?

Austin: Yeah. If you're frustrated with how parenting has been going then you might just consider maybe there's a better way 'cause whereas you and I have moments where we're frustrated with our kids, ultimately, I'm very happy with who our kids are. I'm very happy with where our parenting model is with them. It's very biblical. It's very spiritual. It's very loving. It's very practical. It's very based in neuroscience. And yes, we have moments for sure, okay? but I'm very thankful for the people that have poured into us, the resources that we have found, and we'll talk about those today. But back to the question I asked you a minute ago, just to dial, dial something else in, that couple that really loves their kids that really loves God, what does, what does their daily struggle still look like? Like what types of situations and scenarios do they find themselves in where they're like, "Oh my gosh, why is this happening? I need some help. I need some solutions"?

Like what's happening?

Rachel: Yeah, a lot of times it's the kid is doing something disobedient, and each spouse is approaching it from a different way. or the kid is just not obeying and exhibiting behaviors that the parent doesn't like. And of course, one of the things that we teach that we've learned from the great Becky A. Bailey is, asking yourself the question, how can I support my child to be most likely to choose to? Because, you know, we talk here about the two buckets. Everything in life can fall into two buckets or two files, and it's things I can control can control and things that I can't. And your kids fall into the can't control bucket and a lot more than the can control. And so really looking at it from how can I help my child to be most likely to choose to blank versus how can I make my child blank? And I think most parents struggle, and frustration comes from they're trying to make their child do something or have a certain behavior.

And they're actually judging themselves in the process, and that's why they're so angry and their lid flips so, so quickly. And then they even, for couples in their marriage, they're even judging e each other and criticizing each other, and it becomes about, of course, not what it was in the beginning because we have emotions about ourself like, "Oh, I'm not a good parent." A lot of moms have a lot of mom guilt and mom shame of I'm, I'm not good. You know, he must think I'm blank, blank, or blank because they're not obeying, and I want him to do this thing or my, my kid to do this one thing, and they're not doing it, so that must mean blank about me or about my parenting. So what do you think are some of the top scenarios that parents are getting frustrated in their parenting with?

Austin: Yeah, I think that a big one is sibling issues, of course. You know, I think that the average Christian couple, I think the more driven Christian couple, they almost over-parent their kids because they are so concerned with making sure their kids turn out great. You know, they really want their kids to be happy. They really want them to know the Lord. They really want them to be successful. They really want them to probably have a better childhood than they had. They probably want them to get along with their siblings better than they got along with their siblings. So then it's easy sometimes to kind of over-manage sibling learning opportunities. I think that's a big one. I think another big one is, you know, their kid's ability to, like, speak and be articulate and confident in when they're interacting with other adults. I think a lot of couples get really in their heads about that. I think another one too is just trying to foster their ambition, foster their excitement.

I think another one is just general how do we, like you said earlier, which is a huge point of today's episode, I hope everyone's listening to this when I repeat what Rachel said, you know, we can't control our kids. We can only try to set them up to make the best possible decisions. So I think for a lot of parents, like, they struggle to be like, "How do I get them to make great decisions without either, you know, threatening them with discipline or dangling the carrot too much and incentivizing them with, you know, fill in the blank to try to get them to do anything. And I think all of us have been there, especially in those more 911 scenarios where it's like, "Okay, all right, if you be quiet, you get a treat later," you know? And you know, I've been there. I m even when we led that worship and prayer night on, and 'cause just for anybody listening, we don't celebrate Halloween.

And so we did, like, a worship and prayer night in our home and had a bunch of people and families over and, and we were g doing the big prayer at the end, and here comes Malachi 'cause we, you know, we want the kids to be in the service with us, right? And so here comes Malachi, and I can tell he wants to He's like, "Daddy," and I can tell he's going loud. Right? And he sits in my lap, and I'm like, "Hey, son, I want you to sit here and pray with me." And and it was like And I could feel it. I could feel my ego, you know, kinda being like, "Oh man, like you're the, you're kinda leading this thing and show all these people how great of a parent you are." So I whisper in his ear and I'm like, "Hey, be really quiet with me the whole prayer, and you'll get a treat later." And he just leans into me and snuggles up.

And I was like, "Jackpot." You know, so sometimes

Rachel: We're, we're not immune.

Austin: We're not, yeah. Sometimes we gotta go there. But I think the average, or the more driven Christian couple that, um Man, they, they really wanna do a good job with their kids. There's still those moments where they're like, "This kid is not getting it." And I think a lot of Christian parents forget that, um A lot of pediatricians try to teach that, oh, kids are just impulsive between, like, ages three and six, which even if you go back to, like, even Erikson and some of the other great minds on parenting, you know, th they'll generally agree. Like, there's some data. But I could say this almost clinically because I, I just would put my name that this is fact, is that all human beings all human beings are this way. All human beings are I just forgot the word.

Rachel: Impulsive.

Austin: Impulsive. All hu- I almost said reactive. All human beings are impulsive.

Rachel: That too, yeah.

Austin: And so we know a lot of parents that they expect their kids to not be impulsive. But then most adults that are struggling with either sin, temptation, frustration, addiction bad habits, it's all impulsive.

Rachel: Or they're impulsive right back. It's like the moment their kid's not really behaving, especially in public, you know parents are like, "God, I'm flustered." You know?

Austin: Yeah, and so ultimately I think that for a lot of parents, they wanna do a great job with their kids and then there's still moments where they're like, "They're not getting it," or, "I'm not getting it. They're being impulsive. I'm being impulsive." And a lot of, a lot of married couples will be reluctant to work on their marriage for the same fear, which is like, "Okay, if I'm a great parent and I, I serve a mighty God and I, I, I'm praying and I'm reading the Bible and I'm trying to bring God into everything with my kids, how are they still being disobedient?" Kind of like when people are like, "Well, hey, if, if all we need is God and the Word and prayer to have a great marriage, like, why are we still struggling?" And there's so much shame there. So just for everyone listening today, like, I hope you've identified with or, you feel like you can relate to just some of these little, you know, anecdotal-type scenarios we're coming up with here, and just realizing that more than likely if you struggle with parenting, you're not uniquely screwed up.

Everyone like you struggles with parenting to a degree. And just like in marriage, you're never gonna be perfect. You're never gonna be totally conflict-free, but you're gonna be able to take everything and make it a learning opportunity. The goal is not that you're a perfect parent or a perfect spouse. The goal is that you become really, really good at bouncing back. That's what we really wanna help listeners in the episode today, is to understand there is a model, there is a framework that will help you in the highest amount of scenarios to respond really well and to get back on track really quickly, to repair really quickly so that, you know, there's not these long gaps of shame or guilt or fear that your kid is feeling or that a kid that you're You know, again, whether they're your kid or not, if you're interacting with a, a, a young child, okay, anything under probably 18 you're parenting them in a way, you know? And so one thing I wanna point out too, there's a lot going on when you're parenting, and I don't think we'll get super deep into the psych piece of it today but I just wanna even open the aperture up for anybody who's curious.

When you're parenting a kid, you're There, there's, there's multiple people involved, and you don't know it. You're relating to them as a five-year-old, and then there's also five-year-old you is relating to them at the same time, okay? And so you are basically parenting this five-year-old, but you're also, your inner five-year-old is also in the mix. Okay? And so this is why, and I, I know the right people will really understand this when I say it, that's why a lot of really conscious parents can even be jealous of their kids sometimes because they're giving their kid what they didn't get. You know, the goal is that with every generation we, we get better and better and better and better, and we leave behind the, the broken, the traumatic, the, all those things. a lot of times, parents can be, again, jealous because it's like, "If you only knew how good you had it, because I didn't get this kind of patience," or, "I didn't have a present parent," or, "I didn't get You know, I was spanked and I was this and I was that, but I'm being patient with you and all this and you're not, you're not responding well to me."

Remember, they're still impulsive. They're not mature yet. They don't have 20, 30, 40 years of scaffolding under them. They're still brand-new creations, you know, in, in, in terms of the, the timeline of life. And so I just want everyone to consider for a minute that when you're parenting, there's way more than just you and a kid in that moment, you know, where it's like you're telling them to do something or giving them options, like we're gonna talk about here in a second. And when they're thinking about collaborating with you, cooperating with you or not, there's also a little you that's in the mix as well. And you're also thinking about your parents in the mix. And so parenting is not as black and white as just here's an adult and here's a kid, and I'm gonna try to make this kid do what I want. There's a lot to it. So give yourself grace. Be patient with yourself because parenting is actually complex. But luckily for everybody listening today, we're gonna give, I hope, what comes across as really good, really honest, really practical thoughts on parenting.

Rachel: Yeah. So let's talk about the foundation of good parenting.

Austin: Yeah. Foundation of good parenting really comes down to the husband and wife. Okay? Like you said earlier, modeling a really great marriage for children is very, very important- 'cause that's where your authority comes from. If, if you are yelling at mom or mom is yelling at dad, or mom and dad are always bickering, always critical, never encouraging, not assuming the best in each other, then when you try to tell your kid to do that, they're not gonna take you seriously.

Rachel: 100%. Yeah, you have to model the behavior that you want them to have. And also, this is like shout-out to all the wives, or maybe call out to all the wives, like you have a huge responsibility and role because the way that you respect your husband and his authority is modeling for the kids how they will also respect your husband, but how they will also respect you. And it's really important. Like, they're always watching, and they're gonna be a mirror to your behavior. So you might wanna just check yourself, even right now, ask yourself, "Have I modeled that I respect their father, and am I displaying the behavior that I'm asking of them for me?"

Austin: Yeah. And on the flip side of that, to all the husbands out there, are you gentle and loving to your wife? Are you considerate of her emotions? Do you go out of your way to make sure that you are nurturing and loving to her? Because oftentimes, you know, again, if you try to parent your kid about being loving and gracious and respectful and honorable yet they see the dad not being nurturing to the feminine in the mother, the kid's not gonna take you seriously. Because deep down they're gonna be like, "Yeah, but you don't do this. Yeah, but you don't do this." And so when you tell them, "Hey, here's how you need to act," or, "Here's the different," again, "options" we're gonna talk about here in a second, and if they never see you doing it, then there's gonna be this almost cognitive dissonance happening, and then the kids are gonna be like, "Okay. Parents telling me to do one thing, but I see them do something different."

"So I'm just gonna find my own little place in the middle, and I'm gonna do that." You know? And so foundation really comes down to, number one, there being a, a strong marriage. Like i if you are parenting as a married person a strong marriage is gonna be one of the most foundational things. Number two, of course, and this might feel like the obvious one, but I wanna mention it, is prayer. Okay? It's, it's the spiritual piece, okay? So that makes up two things. Makes up prayer, and then it also makes up what does your personal private life look like spiritually? if we want our kids to receive the blessings that God wants to give them, if we want to shield our kids from, the spiritual, you know, forces of darkness, if we want to kind of encapsulate our kids in the protection of the Lord, then the more and more the parents are obedient in all areas of their life to the Lord, the more favor is gonna be on the walls of their home.

Okay? And so when we are, when we're hedging the just protection and, prayer and the word around our home, that's gonna be one of the most powerful things you can do. The third thing is, is parenting from the same playbook, okay? So powerful marriage, powerful spiritual life, but you gotta parent from the same, parenting book because, again, you will lose all your authority if your kid recognizes that Mom and Dad are never parenting from the same page and that they can play games.

Rachel: Oh, yeah. Because kids will It's not that kids are manipulative, but kid's brain is wired to find the best solution for them and to get what they want.

Austin: Yes. You, you just hit on something super important, and we, we're not gonna dive deep to this, deep into this today. A lot of people call kids manipulative, but really it's actually how they survive. And like you said, it's the hardwiring in their brain that's helping them get the best outcome. A lot of people would judge that as, oh, well they're manipulating. No. The, they're, they're Generally, kids are too young to understand the ethics of manipulation. It might look like manipulation. They don't know the ethics of manipulation. They're just getting what they want. They're just, they're doing what they do to get the best possible outcome.

Rachel: Someday that's gonna be to their advantage in life.

Austin: Someday it's

Rachel: Get creative.

Austin: Yeah, yeah. To get creative

Rachel: Find a solution

Austin: To, to solve problems, right. So if a kid's like, "Yeah, I really want X, Y, and Z, but I'm not getting it," well then I'll turn and, uh It's like this morning with Malachi, you know? Like, he really wanted something, and Rachel told him that he wasn't gonna get that, and so he turns to the corner and pouts with these giant alligator tears, and I know he was hoping that you'd be like, "Okay, buddy." But you know, after doing that for 45 seconds or so, he realized that you were not gonna bend on your word, and then he gave up, which was good, and then he was completely happy right after. So again, powerful marriage, powerful spiritual life, and then making sure you parent from the same playbook, which means you can't wing it. And you can't invent new rules to the parenting game in the moment, especially if the moment is heated and the moment's difficult. It's intentional conversations while you're not parenting Just like in everything, okay?

You come up with a playbook, you come up with, you know, a plan that you execute in the moment that you're not gonna modify in the moment based on emotion and based on urgency. And that's really what we wanna help the listener with today, is we're just gonna give a brief overview in, of our method that's memorized in both of our heads that we call upon. And no, we're not completely perfect at it, for sure, but I would say a good 80, 90% of the time we call on this framework, if not 90 or more, okay? If I'm assuming the best of myself here. And we've seen this work in, our marriage with our kids, we've seen it work with lots of parents and lots of kids. And so, I do wanna credit Dr. Becky A. Bailey who's the author of what I believe, and we've read a lot of parenting books and I could either say this is the best book I've ever read on parenting or it's in my top three.

It's definitely in my top three. Okay? And that book is called Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline. We will link that in this episode. And no, we don't get compensated or anything like that. but I feel like we owe Dr. Becky Bailey a lot because her work has saved us in our parenting and has trickled down into countless couples all across the country. So check out the book, Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline. And we use her approach and, we we've pulled, synthesized from a couple other places. another really, really great book I, I have to mention too, I want to mention, is, Whole-Brain Child by Dr. Dan Siegel. Dr. Dan Siegel founded Interpersonal Neurobiology. His work is incredible. That book is mind-blowing, and there's a killer workbook with it, too. So if you're really feeling the parenting pressure, get that book, get the workbook, and actually sit down and go through the workbook with your spouse about your kid. So so Rach, when you and I have found ourselves in a moment with the kids where intervention is needed, okay?

Now, and actually let me back up one step. We try to parent close enough to where our kids are not gonna face substantial painful harm, but we try to parent far enough away to where they can experience some natural consequence because natural consequences is how kids learn the most effectively. And then they're gonna learn through relationships. Okay? So kids learn through natural consequences. Like, "Oh, I was being negligent and then I fell and I got hurt really bad." That lesson really stays in the nervous system. Or number two, I learn from the context of relationships. When I did X, Y, and Z, it either brought me close to someone or it separated me from them. Okay? So we try to parent close enough to where we're not gonna let our kid fall off a bridge, right? But we parent far enough away You know, so I, I think of it as, like, looking out the window in the field. Like, when the kids are out there and, like, I watch, like, some of the kids, like, climb the fence and jump over the fence, and I see them, like, jump and fall, you know?

And then they, like, roll around and it hurts and and,

Rachel: Or they try to ride on the goats.

Austin: Yeah, or they try to ride on the goats.

Rachel: That horn could impale your eye.

Austin: Yes. And so I'm just like, "Okay, I'm gonna let it happen." They fall off, they cry. But then they don't try to ride the billy goat again, okay? But we're close enough to where if there's a problem you know. So Rach, when we find ourselves in a parenting moment, or you do solo or I solo of our protocol, what's the very first thing that generally you're gonna do to make sure you set yourself up to win in this parenting intervention?

Rachel: Composure. So for me, that's taking a deep breath. And this is where usually, guys, if you could take one thing away from this whole episode composure. Your own composure is important. Don't forget, composure. Take a deep breath. Like burn it into your brain because that is honest to goodness so many people's the thing that turns it and it goes awry is because the parent didn't have composure. And so you can't ask again you can't ask your child to give you what you're not giving them or you're not modeling.

Austin: Yeah. Especially when a parent yells at their kid to be kind. You know? It's like you just you just don't understand, you are just furthering their, their, their mental patterning for the

Rachel: Or like we're spanking a kid for hitting.

Austin: Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's like, "Oh, you hit your sister? I'm gonna spank you for that." It's like, "Oh wait, so I didn't get what I wanted with my sister so I hit her. You didn't get what you wanted out of me, so now you're hitting me." "But I'm not allowed to do that." You know, that's that inherent hypocrisy that the data does not support spanking. It just doesn't, anymore. And, and I'm not sure if the data really ever did, but the, just, that's a different conversation. And so yeah when you're not composed, then the only thing that you're hoping is that they're more scared of you than they are of being let down by what they want, that they're not getting. Okay? So you're counting on Okay, they're not respecting you. They're scared of you. That's different. Okay? Now respecting a parent, like in terms of, like, how we fear the Lord, we don't really use that language of, like, well, you want your kids to fear you because that's, that's kind of reserved for God.

Like, I fear no one but God, like, in that sense, you know? And but I respect my parents. And for the most part, generally, I think I always have respected my parents. And but if you do not have composure with a kid, then you are, one, going to further First of all, you're gonna further validate their position and then they're gonna martyr themselves. And here's what I mean. If your kid is upset, it's because a need's not being met or they can't communicate, okay? Adults are the same way. When they run out of communication skills, they get emotional and they yell. Right? Or they throw stuff or break stuff or whatever. And so if your kid is super upset and they can't communicate it, so they hit or they throw or they break or they, they, they, they, they further try to upset the parent

Rachel: Flail

Austin: Yeah, they flail. Then what they're actually saying deep down is, "I'm really, really upset. I'm struggling. I don't know how to communicate what's going on." So then if you yell at them, they're gonna be like, "See? You don't understand me. You're just yelling at me more. My need is still not getting met." So then their, their ego starts to play this survival game with them and it's like, "Dig in more." Okay? Yell more, cry harder, hit harder because your parent, the person that is responsible for keeping you alive, they're not getting your signals. So amplify your signals. If you come into an intervention, a situation with your kid, and you are regulated they will regulate off of you, and you're gonna model for them what it'll look like if they listen. Okay. So step one

Rachel: Composure.

Austin: Composure. All right. So when you're coming into any parenting interaction, we encourage you to be composed. And even if you're like, "Yeah, Austin, Rachel, I don't believe all this, like, I'm gonna keep doing whatever," here's just a simple thing. Let's just say that you send your kid to your, to their room as a form of discipline. I want you to try something. Instead of saying, "Go to your room now. Go. Go now," and then they cry, and they scream, and they mad they get mad, and they stomp, and they go to their room. What I want you to do is gently hold their hand and walk them to their room. And just see the difference. Say, "Oh, okay, well, you disobeyed again, so that means, you know, we're gonna go to your room." Gently grab their arm and walk them to their room, even if they're crying, screaming, flying, whatever, and just notice the difference in how they then respond to you and how quickly they recover and come back, okay?

So anyways, number one is composure. Number two is attribute positive intent. And one of the most powerful things that, that parents can do is attribute positive intent to what their kids are doing because ultimately, even the worst thing your kid does, it's coming from a good place in them.

Rachel: Same as in marriage.

Austin: Same as in marriage. It's coming from a good need. Okay? Even if one kid punches the other kid, it's because they've, they were hurt or they felt alone or they felt misunderstood or they couldn't communicate, so they, they, they got angry. Or let's just say that your kid, you know, gets really upset and Well, let's just say that your kid steals, you know, from another sibling or steals from you or steals from school or something like that. The need was maybe they didn't feel good enough. They didn't feel sufficient at something. They, they felt embarrassed that they didn't have something all the other kids had. So kids only feel embarrassed because they care about being close to other people and having good relationships. Okay? Like, every bad thing, quote-unquote, that you could label bad thing, sinful thing that a kid does is still all coming from a good place in them that just wants to be loved

Rachel: Yeah, that's a desire

Austin: And, and a good need, usually a basic human need. Wouldn't you agree?

Rachel: Yeah. To be loved, to feel valuable, to be seen, to feel worthy, to feel significant.

Austin: To feel safe.

Rachel: Yeah. And, and we can speak on such authority on this because this is what we reverse engineer in adults all the time.

Austin: All the time.

Rachel: Because we ask the questions, we do the processes, and it's the thing beneath the thing, beneath the thing, beneath the thing. Everybody just wants to be loved. Oh, I didn't feel valuable. Oh, I didn't feel important. Oh, I just wanted love. I just wanted to feel worthy. And all negative behavior can be traced back to a, a good desire.

Austin: Yeah. A and a good place in them. Because ultimately, deep down inside of us, there's a child. There's a, there's usually a wounded child, a child of, that still is loved by God and a child that more than likely loves God, and that child just wants to be loved, like you said safe, seen, supported, all those things taken care of. And so the language kinda looks like instead of, "Oh my gosh, why did you hit your sibling?" or "Why did you disobey me?" or "How dare you do that?" or "Didn't you know blah, blah, blah?" Like, think about Galatians 6:1. It's just like one of my favorite verses. You know, "Those of you who, if someone is caught in sin, those of you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently." Okay? that scripture's pretty clear, right? So it's, you know restoring your kid is not spanking them and shaming them. Restoring them is reminding them that they are a child of God and that they are better than the behavior that was just exhibited.

Right? And so here's what the language looks like. Instead of, "How dare you hit your sister?" it's "Hey, buddy, I know that you probably just really wanted some attention from your sister and you weren't getting it, and you got really frustrated, and that's why you hit them. Is that accurate?" And 99% of the time, it's gonna be something like that, you know? Or, "Hey, I, I noticed that you stole some money out of this," or, "I noticed that you, um," fill in the blank, a million different things. A and if we can speak to positive intent, "I'm sure you were just wanting to be included. I'm sure you were just wanting appreciation. I'm sure you were just wanting time with me or your mom or dad."

Rachel: "Oh, hey, I see that you colored on the wall. Wow, you are being very creative." "I could tell that you wanted to be very creative, but we don't color on the wall," and then, you know you go down the line. But first attributing positive intent of

Austin: Yeah. 'Cause what does that do for them? When you attribute positive intent, just like in marriage when you attribute positive intent to a kid, what ultimately does that, what ground does that gain you as the parent?

Rachel: Well, ultimately, you know, you were talking about when you come down on them, then they will martyr themselves. So it's the opposite. They're coming towards you instead of farther away of like, "You don't understand." It's like, "Oh, yeah, you already do understand, so my walls are down, and my guard is down and I don't have to be defensive because you already get it." "You already get it."

Austin: Yeah, you get me. Yeah, and if someone understands me, I don't have to defend me anymore.

Rachel: Yeah, and, and ooh, anybody that works at customer service or with people or leaders, I mean, this is the skill that you can use in any relationship, in any walk of life, is attributing positive intent to others.

Austin: Yeah. E even just a any leadership position, period. Shame will never get you what you want, okay? restoring someone's identity and speaking the best to them about them will help them naturally figure out what didn't align. You know? Like, i it's like the other day, I was, I was parenting a friend of ours' kid, and, their son, and I got down on his level, and I literally got my forehead on his forehead, and I was like, "Hey, you are a good kid. I know you know how to follow the rules here." I was like, "You're a good kid, aren't you?" And he's like, "Y yeah, yeah." And I said, "You are a good kid." I said, "So what does that mean you're gonna do next?" And he's like, "Follow the rules." It was right there. Like, I, I didn't need to shame him. I didn't ev didn't need to give him grief or guilt or anything like that. He got it. Because if you shame people, then they have negative beliefs about who they are, and then their behavior will stay negative.

That's, that's that cognitive behavioral, linkage there. And so, but if we remind people of who they are I mean, think about how Jesus did that. Think about how Jesus reminded us, like, you know, and, and same thing with Paul. Like, think about the language of you are saints, and friends, and heirs, and children of the light, and fearfully and wonderfully made. And think about how easily God could have just shamed everybody for their sin and shamed everybody for their mistakes. Same thing with Jesus, same thing with Paul. But yet it's when we speak life, that, that's what that actually means. Like, speaking life is not just, like, cheesy encouragement. Okay? Like, I mean, not, I'm not saying cheesy encouragement's not a good thing. But really speaking life is like, "Hey, you are a child of God." You know? It's like you and I, like, when we speak restorative to each other. You know, instead of me being like, "Rach, you were impatient with the kids again,"

I'm like, "Hey." 'Cause you might be expecting in that moment to be, you know, shamed or something.

Rachel: I might already have that inner dialogue.

Austin: Yeah, you might already have that inner dialogue. But if I'm like, "Hey, Rach, I just wanna remind you of something," and usually by that point you already know. I'm like, "Hey

Rachel: I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah."

Austin: I'm like, "Hey, you are an amazing mother, and that's why this situation feels off to me, because I know the kind of mom you are." I don't even have to say anything about the behavior, and you're like, "Yeah. Oh, man," like, "ah, that was a really intense moment," and blah, blah, blah, right? And so when we attribute positive intent, we remove defensiveness, we create connection. If there's no connection between you and your kid, there can be no instruction. If there's not connection, there's no instruction, and then no discipline's gonna work anyways. Discipline will make them double down always. And then so what happens is if you use fear to control your kid instead of using connection and, and using collaboration, like co-creativity to solve the problem, then all you're doing is you're just making all of their rage and pain and shame, present in the moment for them but also dormant for them to work out later in their life. 'Cause what they'll do is then they will, they'll do what they wanna do just when you're not around.

And guys, one of the major benefits to being really, really good at parenting is that your kids will continue to see you as a thought leader in their life. If all they see you as someone who spanks them, shames them, comes down on them, whatever, then ultimately they're just gonna become deceptive. And you might think, "Oh, I have these perfectly well-behaved little kids that just, they're quiet and docile," but what's gonna start happening as they get older and older, you're gonna realize how much they're doing behind your back. Because they're not coming to you anymore. They don't feel safe with you anymore. And our role as parents is that we maintain enough bond and relationship and rapport with our kids that no matter how big they s have screwed up, they will come to you and be like, "Mom, Dad, I messed up." And we're gonna teach you how to how to maintain that here. So all right, so number three, what's the third thing we do?

Rachel: Okay, so first we have composure. Then we have attributing positive intent. What's next?

Austin: I thought you were next. Am I next? We're gonna have to edit this out. Am I next? Who said the first thing? You said the first thing.

Rachel: Oh, we're taking turns. I didn't know.

Austin: Oh, yeah, we're just gonna rotate. We'll just keep this. It's okay. People need to know that we, you know, we don't edit everything out.

Rachel: You go. No, you go.

Austin: No. No, you go. Aw, you're so cute.

Rachel: You, you're so good. Yeah.

Austin: Aw, you're adorable. Okay. All right. So Rach, what's the, the third step?

Rachel: Options. So here's a good scenario. you're, it's time to leave. Ooh, this is a good one. We, we all face this as parents. Time to go. And your kid doesn't wanna go. And so you say, "Hey, listen, you have a choice." And this is super important, and this is straight from Becky Bailey's book. "You have a choice." And that feels really great, really empowering for the kid.

Austin: You feel empowered. Yep, you feel powerful.

Rachel: Because they're like, "Oh, I do now." And then they're engaged, they're listening, and they want to make a choice. So you say, "You have a choice. Do you want to put on your coat, or do you want me to put on your coat?" Or, "Do you wanna run to the car now or hold my hand?" You could even give three options. "Do you wanna skip to the car, run, or hold my hand?"

Austin: That one has worked so many times.

Rachel: They love skipping. And usually it's, like, skipping while holding hands, and then it's this great bonding moment. And so you're presenting them with limited choices, but they're positive choices. It's not go and you go, or you don't go and you get spanked. You know? It's, "Hey, you have three choices or two choices. What do you choose?" And then they'll say, "I choose blank." And sometimes when you're talking about the positive choices, they'll say, "I'm divergent." They won't say that, but they'll say- "I'm gonna race to the car. Do you wanna race me?" You know? And they might come up with their own positive idea, but they're engaged in the, the process and it's like, "Let's do it." "Let's race to the car." And so, that's huge to be able to engage your child in the activity. And again, remember, it's how can I be most how can my child be most likely to choose to do what I would like? Instead of how can I control them to do this?

And so helping them to be most likely to choose to obey going to the car is giving them multiple choices. And they engage in the process. This is why toddlers love to dress themself. Because they want to have autonomy. They need it. Because as they're maturing, this is where a lot of tantrums come from is because they just want to have

Austin: They just want autonomy

Rachel: Their own autonomy.

Austin: It's, it's wild when parents, criticize and control, whether through fear or whether through, you know, whatever logistical method they're using, their child's whole life, and then they get older, and they're like, "You know, why doesn't my kid wanna be more than just a compliant employee?" You know? Or, "Why doesn't my kid wanna do anything in the leadership world?" Because they had to just be a follower. Like, they were never actually given the chance to lead, 'cause they were just forced to follow.

Rachel: Don't get me started on the school system.

Austin: Yeah, I know, right? Yeah. That's just, we shouldn't even go down that route. We will at some point. all right, so, all right, so we've got- Composure. We've got attribute positive intent to what they're doing, what they're saying, what's going on, and then we're gonna give them options. So if they don't then choose to collaborate or cooperate with you as the parent, which you are still the ultimate authority the next thing we do is we give them options with consequences. Right? And so that's where we help them understand the natural consequence of what's going on. We s we're still not in the world of discipline yet. Kind of sometimes. We kinda morph this and the next one together, but generally, it's options with consequences. Say, "Hey," so you have Like, let's just say the kids are fighting. "Hey, you guys have two options here. Either number one, you can keep fighting but then one of you is probably gonna get hurt, and then you guys are gonna get really upset, and then Mom and Dad are probably gonna have to get involved and separate you guys.

Option number two is you guys stop fighting, and then go choose to play with the Legos and have a lot of fun together. Or option three, you could go outside and ride your bikes, where you can yell and be loud and it's just a little less confined than here in the living room. Which of those options feels like the best for you?" And then they have a chance to choose. The beautiful thing that you've done here is you have established that you're the authority because you have given them not only the options, but you've given them the consequences of those options. So you're teaching them that decisions have outcomes and decisions have consequences, right? So, like, "If you maintain what you're doing, here's the thing that could happen," and it's probably negative because you're getting involved. "Or you could shift gears, and the consequence of that is that you'll get along better. You'll have more fun. You won't have any discipline," you know type thing.

And so then what's happening is you're building a bond with your kids to where when your kids are facing real world, really difficult stuff, okay? Like your kid comes to you and says, "Mom, Dad," you know, they're 16 and, you know, "Someone invited me to a party and I, you know, like, I kinda didn't wanna tell you and I, but I'm just not, like, sure what I should do." And then you can be like, "Wow, thank you for coming to me with that. I really appreciate that. So let's talk about what your options are and what, you know, what could happen no matter what way you choose." And that's a really powerful conversation when you can tell your kid, "Well, if you go, maybe this, this, and this could happen." "If you don't go, maybe this, this, and this could happen. What do you think is best?" And you're training your kid to start thinking about, "What am I doing? What could I be doing?

And what's the outcome of both those things?" 'Cause again, if you, if you basically scare your kid away from your authority, they won't come to you when it really matters. See, right now, the stakes are low. I mean, the stakes are always high, but it's

Rachel: For those that have small children.

Austin: Yeah, small children the stakes are low. But soon, like when your kids are 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, getting out of the house, what you want is to never lose that position of influence in their life. And if all their nervous system has ever known is when they come to you or when you intervene, there's pain, there's shame, there's separation there's heavy guilt well, then they'll stop coming to you. And they'll come to you the minimum to keep you from being on their back. But deep down, as soon as they can get away from you, they're gonna get away from you. They're gonna get away from your influence.

Rachel: Yeah. And can I just take a minute to encourage parents? Because it is, we know from our own experience, that it is more time-consuming and difficult, almost painful, emotionally draining, to be a conscious parent in the young years. But as we already know with, our, our oldest is only 11, but she's doing incredibly well and thriving, and like all of our kids are doing well. But man, the young years, we, we put in a lot of effort, but we knew if we do it right while they're young, it's gonna get easier. But the opposite happens. And I mean, we work with couples that know that, and they've seen that, and they're mourning that. They mourn it for the rest of their lives in some cases, that I didn't do it right. I did the short-term make my kid obey solution.

Austin: I, yeah, I traded, I traded short-term relief for, you know, a long-term, less ideal outcome.

Rachel: Yeah. And maybe a lot of them, they didn't know. But for those of you, if you're listening, like, you know now, like, there's enough resources on the internet for you to learn how to consciously parent. And, but I wanna encourage you and equip you and just put fire under your wings that it is so worth it. And you So in marriage, you know we talk about it, your personal relationship with God is most important in life, your relationship with your spouse second, but then it's your kids. And, like, you are stewarding their souls. God gave you their souls. And when all burns away and when there's nothing left, what's left? Only souls. And so the souls that you have an impact on in this earth, that is what matters. And so yeah, it's difficult sometimes. Yeah, the meltdowns trigger your emotional trauma from your childhood, but there is a way forward. I mean, we're a, we're a, we're a part of it every day helping couples own their own stuff so they can show up as better parents with that composure.

And just, we just wanna encourage you that, I w- I wanna encourage you right now that it's worth it. Stick with it. Get on the same page. And not to be, like, overly dramatic, but your kids' souls are on the line. Like, because we know.

Austin: You should be overly dramatic about it.

Rachel: I- Your kids' souls are on the line. But they are, and, and it's important, and it's what God has gifted to you. Like, he hand selects your children for you. So anyway.

Austin: Yeah, I think that's powerful. And ultimately, you are paying for everything up front in this model.

Rachel: You are.

Austin: Conscious parenting is harder.

Rachel: You are. Yeah.

Austin: And because again, with unconscious parenting, you want sh a short-term control 'cause you feel out of control. But you're gonna pay for it in the long run. In this model, it is harder up front, but the result is so powerful. Like, everyone it's so funny, everyone in our life, not everyone, lots of people have said to us, "Oh man, just wait till they're older." Every, every year our kids get older and older and older, our parenting, relationship gets better and stronger and better because they're coming to us with things that 99% of kids are not going to their parents about because they know that we will help them think about options and consequences. You never want to lose your children's influence. You never want to lose that you are their ear, that you are their confidant, that you are their cheerleader and their asset and their c their ultimate spiritual cheerleader. You know, and if, if they start to see you as the one who, "Oh, man, if they know that I this, they're gonna do blank, blank, and blank," versus, "Help empower me to make great choices so that I can flourish into the child, child and adult that God wants me to be then they will let other sources fill them up, and it's not gonna be you.

It's gonna be the internet. It's gonna be their friends at school. It's gonna be their friends in the community. It's gonna be other people. And so

Rachel: Yeah. I have one more thought, too. They pay for it, so it's like you'll pay for it later if you're seeking the temporary quick fix now, but they're gonna pay for it, too.

Austin: Yeah. Yeah, and the other, the other thing I wanna give people hope about, too, is that, I mean, for girls, I mean, I could get into the brain science. Let's just say, like, for girls it's, like, 20-ish and under, and boys, it's 25-ish and under. Their brains are still very th th they still have neuroplasticity. Like, brains can be, are are still pliable, all right? So and we believe that God's grace and through what we call the art of repair which is something we work with couples on, through repair, through grace, through forgiveness. If, if you've had a hard road of parenting, like, more than likely, with enough in intention and prayer, you can absolutely, you know, reverse maybe some of the negative things that have been fostered. But ultimately, we wanna encourage anybody listening today that you can restart how you parent today without shame, without guilt, without fear, and just go for it because all of us started somewhere, you know? We, we didn't start off as perfect parents, for sure, and we're not perfect parents now.

So let's go back to our process. So step one is, composure. Step two is to attribute positive intent. Step three is to give options. Four is to give options with consequences. So if you've given your kid, Rach, options with consequences, and they still ain't getting it Let's just say their lid is flipped. They're not listening. They're super defiant. They're being destructive. What do we go to next?

Rachel: Discipline. And so at that point, that is where you, you get to take action. And I remember the first time I read Becky Bailey's book. I was like, "Where's the discipline? Where's the discipline?" I, this book is supposed to be about discipline. And I realized, "Oh, it's me." "Oh, I'm the one that needs to grow and learn." but

Austin: "I thought it was the kids but it's me."

Rachel: Yeah. and so but that's the point where if, if we're still not getting some cooperation, now we move to discipline. And so what, what our discipline looks like is a lot of natural consequences. So it's, "Okay, you used that thing to hit your sibling. You don't get that thing anymore." Or, "You are not being safe to be around." Like, we don't use, like, s- "Go to your room" as

Austin: Isolation

Rachel: Yeah, as a, as

Austin: We use con we use conscious distance and conscious and more, more conscious space is what we would call it.

Rachel: So they

Austin: But we don't isolate.

Rachel: Yeah. So what that can look like is, "Hey, you're not being safe to be around." "So you're gonna take some time to think about it." For kids that are a little bit For kids that are young, that's only, like, a minute or two 'cause their nervous system, that's, they can't, that's not healthy

Austin: Not good for them long-term

Rachel: If they have isolation. But, for, like, our older kids, they'll journal. Like, "I will respect Mom." "I will respect " You know, they'll do that, like, five times, or we'll give them a scripture or, like, a letter. You know?

Austin: They, yeah.

Rachel: Or they'll write taking responsibility or, you know, sometimes for us it's, "Ugh, you need a nap." But I have a really good story. So one of our couples called us, and she's like, "Hey, I don't know what to do. What do I do?" their son took a rock and threw it over the school fence into the parking lot, and it hit a nice BMW's windshield and broke the windshield. The whole thing's on camera, so the kid can't, like weasel out of it, you know?

Austin: Can't get out of it, yeah.

Rachel: It's like, "Okay, oh, busted." No pun intended. And so she's like, "Well

Austin: Saw right through that one

Rachel: He was gonna go to a birthday party. Do I, like, tell him he can't go this weekend?" And I was like, "There's actually clear consequence here. Like, he broke the windshield. He pays for the windshield." So the parents fronted the money, but ultimately it's the kid that broke the windshield. So they set up a spreadsheet. He's paying it off. he's doing jobs. He's gonna work his way off. But I also said it's good to give him a little bit of carrot to give him a healthy relationship with money, so maybe every 20%, he can make, like, 20% or something to pocket to feel like, "Yes, okay, I'm doing it." And so that's a really good example. Like, I think some parents would tend to want to just pay for it and give them some sort of little consequence, but what they learned is I can damage other people's property, and it doesn't fall on me. Somebody's gonna come and, and and take me out, like rescue me from that.

And so it's really important that we give our children natural consequences for certain behaviors. I mean, our kids haven't gone to events. If they were not honoring us or honoring their siblings, we say, "Hey, we're not gonna let you go to this one event this weekend because if you don't have your home, your relationships if you're not able to honor us, like, we're not gonna send you out into the world to try to love other people. You need to get your, your stuff right here at home." And so that's another, like, natural consequence that we give our children.

Austin: Yeah. And so we will allow them to, one, experience natural consequences. Two, we will give them natural consequences. And, you know, like you said, there's times where, like from a dis discipline perspective, they either need to write a letter you know, to someone. Sometimes it's themselves, you know, like about treating themselves differently, treating their family members differently someone else differently. Sometimes it's physical in the sense of, "Hey, you're gonna go walk some laps outside," or, "You're gonna go move some rocks because you've got a lot of energy that you're not getting out in a healthy way, so we're gonna help you get that energy out." And so once we've gone all the way through options, options with consequences, and they're still not collaborating, cooperating, that kind of thing, well, now we're gonna go, "Okay, we know what's best for you, and right now you're-" "having a hard time seeing what's best for you, so we are gonna step in." Rarely do we have to get to that point, though.

Like I can say with complete honesty that rarely do we ever have to get to that point where it's like, "Okay, now we are going to limit your autonomy and we're gonna step in," because we're thorough with the rest of the process. And that's what we really want people to take home from this today is that if they are composed and regulated if they attribute positive intent with their kids so that their kids feel connected, they feel safe, they feel seen, they feel understood, and they help them, empower them with options and with thinking through outcomes and consequences and, and that could be spiritual, emotional, physical, logistical, all of that when we really help our kids with that, generally they, they want that. Like, the very thing that they weren't getting which made them act out was autonomy, power, responsibility, their own voice, their own ideas, their own individuation, their own all of that. They weren't getting all those things, so then they acted out.

Now that we're giving them those things, they're gonna choose to correct their own wrong. They're gonna choose to restore their own wrong, and that's a really, really powerful moment.

Rachel: And it's super important that there's no shame in that.

Austin: Yeah. Yeah. And then the last thing we'll say, too, before we go to the, the nonprofit shout-out today is just understanding repair. Okay? Repair is undoing, and it's one of the most powerful consequences and even forms of, of discipline, but it's a powerful way to help someone see the error of their ways and to help bring them back and to help bring the relationship back, especially between us and our kids. Is kids need to see their parents being willing to repair. They need to see their parents being willing to go, "Oh, you know what? My bad. I messed up there. I can see what I did. I can see the damage that it caused and I can see the impact, and I wanna make it right. I wanna get back into integrity, and in the future, here's how I'm gonna conduct myself." When they see their parents repairing, kids learn to repair. And then they want to fix what they break.

Rachel: Yeah, 'cause it's the same as in marriage. You inspire the other person to take responsibility. So as a parent, you're not taking responsibility for their thing that triggered you, but you say, "Okay, I'm recognizing that when you weren't respecting me, which you should have done, I felt out of control and I got angry."

Austin: It's good.

Rachel: All right.

Austin: Okay. All right. It's good.

Rachel: Ready for the nonprofit shout-out?

Austin: Yeah, let's do it.

Rachel: Okay, I'm excited for this because it kind of alongs, goes along the line with parenting. We absolutely love doing this with our kids every year. The shout-out is samaritanspurse.org. We will, we'll post a link. They have an amazing holiday gift catalog where you and your family can choose what do you wanna save up money for or, or use some of your savings or, or have your kids do jobs to purchase something. Our daughter, for $10 you can get a Bible into someone's hand around the world. She's gonna do a little, a little live concert and raise She wants to give She wants to donate 100 Bibles. And you could We talked about a goat last year. You could build or improve a hospital, provide life-saving medical care. You could buy baby chicks for a family in need or a milk goat. So there's all kinds of things that you can do. Visit the link below. We would love for you guys to join us in donating to Samaritan's Purse this holiday season.

Austin: Yeah, it's amazing. It's And it's a, an amazing thing to do with your kids. So check it out. Thank you guys for watching our episode today. We hope today was helpful for you. We love parenting. We love coaching other married couples on parenting. This is why in our program, our, our community and coaching membership program, we actually do monthly parenting calls, and not only do we do monthly parenting calls to help support the parents, we actually do a call every single month with kids 6 to 18 that are, their parents are part of our program so we can help effect change from the top down and the bottom up in people's homes. So we love parenting. We love kids. We thank God all day, every day for giving us the chance to parent, and so this, this topic's really important to us. But if this was valuable to you guys, please give us a like, a comment, a share, a rating.

Rachel: Yeah, share this with your friends.

Austin: I can't, I can't tell you how m how much that, that helps other people like you get this type of information. So we love you all. We appreciate you all. Thank you for watching this episode, and we hope to see you on the next one.