Austin and Rachel record their first episode in the new basement studio they built as a family project, with room for guest couples coming soon. Then they turn to a simple idea that has shifted their marriage and many others: you usually cannot be right and happy at the same time, so ask yourself how often you have traded being happy for being right.
Austin explains that most fights over who is right are really about connection. When a couple feels connected, it is easy to take responsibility, like in their story about who forgot the mustard. Rachel adds that power struggles come from fear of losing love. If your sense of being okay depends on being right, being right becomes very important.
They walk through a common scenario: a spouse comes home after a rough day and is not at their best. If you are afraid of getting got, you armor up and take it personally. Instead, Austin says, all attack is just struggle, and an opportunity to serve. He contrasts justice, mercy and grace, and points to Jesus praying "Father, forgive them" from the cross as the kind of love that actually changes people. Connection comes first, and rightness grows out of it.
They close by again shouting out the Samaritan's Purse gift catalog, where their kids are helping give goats to families in need.
Key takeaways
- Ask yourself how many times you have traded being happy for being right.
- Most arguments about who is right are really about whether you feel connected.
- If your worth rides on being right, you will fight for it. Settle your worth first.
- All attack is just struggle. Respond with support instead of defense.
- Grace is giving your spouse love and patience they did not earn, and it is what changes people.
- Focus on connection first, and let rightness grow out of it.
Quotes from the episode
“Most arguments over who's right and who's wrong, again, comes purely down to connection.”Austin
“All attack is just struggle, and it's an opportunity.”Austin
“Yeah, I'd rather be connected to my spouse.”Rachel
Full episode transcript
Transcribed from the episode audio and lightly edited for readability. Speaker labels are automated and may occasionally be off.
Austin: Welcome to the Conscious Christian Marriage podcast, where we help driven, highly committed Christian couples elevate their marriage through focusing on their heart, soul, mind, and strength. We are your hosts, Austin and Rachel Holt, and we're super glad you're joining us today.
Rachel: Yeah. Thank you for tuning in. We are very happy to be here. If you're watching on YouTube, you can see that we are in our new studio.
Austin: Woo!
Rachel: Yeah. So it's been a labor of love for Austin and myself, but I will say, kicking off appreciations here- Austin, I really appreciate you for spearheading this project, for allowing me to make design either vetoes or choices, but you're, like, the driver of it and getting it done, getting everything set up, and coordinating times for us to do it together, and I really enjoyed the process. It's been a lot of fun, and I appreciate how you've looped our kids in on it, and we've It's been like a family thing.
Austin: Yeah. That's been fun.
Rachel: Like, really fun. I enjoy doing family projects together, and the kids love it. And they're really good at it.
Austin: Well, yeah, I mean, like, when we did the drywall, you know- Grace did, like, most of the screws on an entire four-by-eight panel drywall, which was cool. And of course, Malachi was, like, trying to incorporate his hammer into every aspect of what we did. And yeah, it was really fun, and thank you for the appreciation. And, my appreciation for you is that, there's a lot of times where on this project I was like, "Hey, we need to go downstairs right now and work on blank for like 20 minutes. Just, like, 20 minutes. We're just trying to inch towards the goal line." And lots of times you were like, "Okay, let's just go do it," and just were willing to drop whatever we were doing and come down here and work on it. So
Rachel: Thank you
Austin: I appreciate you being spontaneous and available to help get this project done. So.
Rachel: Thank you.
Austin: And for those of you who have followed our podcast for a little while, you know that, we've actually had three podcast studios since the beginning. So we had our first one at our office in town, 'cause we have, we have offices in, n in the city that's pretty close to where we live, 'cause we live out in the country. And then, once we moved, out here to the country, we moved that studio up into our office, which little did you know, our office and podcast studio were one. Okay? It's hard to tell, because we had a, a pretty cool space up there. But we had a dream of just having a big permanent podcast studio, which happens to be in our basement of our house. So it's a huge blessing because we can literally just come down here, open the door, turn everything on, record, and then shut and lock the door, and go back to whatever we were doing. So I am really thankful.
It's kind of like a - feeling to just be in here. And of course we have, we stuff. We're doing some flooring and some other little decor things.
Rachel: Aesthetics.
Austin: Little aesthetics. Some lighting changes, but we really wanted to get in an episode today, and, you know.
Rachel: Yeah. And we're very excited, because we'll be having, because of our new space and our new setup, we'll be having guests and guest couples that we're thrilled to introduce you guys to.
Austin: Yeah. So you can't see it, but behind the, the cameras over here, we got more tables just like this one, more chairs just like these, more microphones, and so we are set up to do, interviews, and it's gonna be awesome. So we've already got
Rachel: It's gonna be fun
Austin: The first couple set up, and we're really, really excited. And so the goal is to eventually have eight to d to, to be able to have eight people on camera at the same time down here. So I'm really excited about that. So who knows? Maybe one of you listening to this episode or watching this episode may end up in this very room with us doing a podcast episode. So, we already knocked out appreciations just organically, so
Rachel: Love it
Austin: Thanks for, thanks for doing that for us, Rachel. You are a champion, truly. But, let's go into today's topic. So today's topic is actually gonna be something just, what seems profoundly simple but, has been a big shift in our marriage and in a lot of other marriages that we have had the pleasure of working in. And I think we talked a little bit about this in our 13 one-liners. I think we did. I can't quite remember, but I, uh either way, it's the idea of it's better to be happy than right. Okay? Now, sometimes people have this, like, almost, like, ethical, spiritual conundrum with this one. And we're not saying
Rachel: You can't be right
Austin: That, that Yeah, that you can't ever be right and happy at the same time. 'Cause we are saying that, and we believe in, in very black-and-white truths. In marriage especially, it's important to think, to ask yourself the question. Like, let's just say that you're in a learning opportunity with your spouse, where maybe you're not communicating well. Maybe there's some Just something has come up, okay? Maybe there's some hurt, some wounding, some maybe a broken agreement or something. And, uh Or you're maybe just not getting your way, or your spouse isn't coming around the way you want them to come around, or something like that. A lot of times spouses will trade being happy for being right. Okay? And sometimes a classic example of this we give is, you know, the husband's on the couch, and he's like, "Yeah, I won. I w- I won that argument." And then he falls asleep on the couch alone, right? So he got his victory in being right, but he ultimately lost what was most important to him, which was connection with his spouse.
And so for those of you who are listening or watching this episode, what we really want you to think about today is how many times in your marriage have you just straight-up traded being happy for being right, okay? And sometimes you can be both. I actually think a l quite more often than you think you can be both. But the point of focusing on happiness over rightness is did you trade your connection so that everyone knew you were right, or specifically your spouse knew that you were right? Okay?
Rachel: Man, we see this publicly so often where it's like a couple will get into a little spat, and it's only about who's right. And it's like, oh man, you guys were connected, and now you're not, and that's, that's, that's a bummer for you. And it was just about whether they were right or wrong, about a m insignificant unimportant detail.
Austin: Yeah. Yeah. And usually those little power struggles are indicative of other things that are going on. You know? And so if you're someone who maybe finds themselves maybe disagreeing with their spouse or, or f or finding it so important to be right that's usually indicative that there's a connection issue. And instead of asking to repair the connection issue, you're trying to create connection by actually just arguing about things. Okay? If you're not willing to ask for what you want, sometimes you'll create it in a negative way. Okay? I.e., why the, you know, the little kid pulls the girl's pigtails sitting behind her in class, 'cause he doesn't wanna talk to her, but he wants her attention, you know? And so, but what's important here, and we, we get asked this question pretty often, you know, like, how do you avoid, you know, this type of trap? And part of it is this: it's asking yourself the question, do you need the other person to know you're right for you to know that you're right?
Rachel: And for you to be happy.
Austin: Yeah, and for you to be happy. That's a big part of it, is if something happened, and you're so sure it went down a certain way, one, it probably ultimately in the grand scheme of things doesn't really matter. Most arguments over who's right and who's wrong, again, comes purely down to connection. Do we feel connected? Do we not feel connected? Okay? But the question you gotta ask yourself is, in your mind, do I need them to know that I'm right, to believe I'm right? And do I need them to know that they're wrong for me to be okay? Okay. And that's sort of like a baseline level of consciousness in this. The evolution of that consciousness is realizing it's so not important to me to be right or wrong. I just wanna be connected. I just wanna be happy. You know? And more than likely, there is an empirical truth involved in any interaction you might have with your spouse, and you'll get to that empirical truth after you're connected.
Okay? 'Cause connection is the bridge, you know, for honest discussion to take place. You know, when you and I are really connected, it's very easy to take responsibility for things. You know, it's like our mustard story. You know? It's like, it's super easy to take responsibility for who forgot the mustard at the store when we feel really connected. Okay? Like, it doesn't really bother me if I'm wrong, because I'm connected to you. That's the ultimate thing I want. You know? It's like, we're connected, so it's like, "Oh, well, pfft, sure. I could've got the mustard. I forgot. Oops. Ha ha ha." Like, I'm just enjoying being connected to you.
Rachel: Yeah, there's no fear. And there's no judgment when you know you're loved and fully, like, present in that. It's like everything comes down to this fear of loss of love or this fear that we're unlovable. So it's like we, in these power struggles of who's right, who's not, it's like I need to be right to be okay with myself. And it's okay to be wrong. And I think the story we tell ourselves is that we need to be right to be happy, but what we're saying is, actually, sometimes you just get to choose to be happy instead of right. You say, "Actually, my happiness isn't contingent on that."
Austin: Yeah. Yep. I'd, I'd rather just be happy right now.
Rachel: Yeah, I'd rather be connected to my spouse.
Austin: Yeah. And you, you, you teetered on something really, really important there. what you said was really, really important. You alluded to something else I wanted to say that's also important.
Rachel: Oh, thank you.
Austin: Just making sure, making sure I'm clear there. Is, that at the end of the day, if something is riding on something then we get in our heads about it. For example, if how much you love yourself accept yourself, welcome yourself, appreciate yourself, is contingent on whether someone thinks you're right or wrong then becoming right or wrong becomes very, very important. Okay? So, you know, and this is why we're so big, like, in, within CCM, with identity work, right? Like, when we work with couples, we really hone in on identity, because we want them to know their identity that's unconditional on anything. 'Cause when people's identity is at stake, that's when they get wacky. That's when they get a little weird. They go a little bananas. You know? And,
Rachel: I love when you say bananas. I don't know why.
Austin: Aw, thank you. I appreciate that. And, what, what show were we watching? There's some, we watched some little video the other day that was like, "He's like a monkey without his bananas," or something. What was that?
Rachel: I don't know.
Austin: It was really funny. I'm, I'm gonna try to remember that, but
Rachel: You're just like a monkey without your bananas.
Austin: Yeah. You're just like a monkey without your bananas today. That's what I'm gonna say to you when I think you're a little off someday.
Rachel: That sounds like our kids.
Austin: Yes. But anyways, I think that for a lot of people, if you notice yourself, again, getting super caught up in happy versus right, okay? Es especially caught up in happy versus, or, I'm sorry, right versus wrong, it's probably because you think something's at stake, like your identity. Or like someone's opinion of you, perspective of you. So that, so because of that, being right is so im incredibly important to you that you're not gonna let it go, okay? Which brings us into a conversation we had with a couple last night who is in our premiere program. this amazing couple. And we're having this conversation, and, we just kinda talked about, like, generating the willingness to go beyond being defensive and just really welcoming when our spouse is struggling. 'Cause this is something that a lot of couples, and this is a really, really successful couple, really, really incredible human beings, they love the Lord, great kids, all these things. And one thing they, they both have real high-pressure, you know, jobs, and, and one thing they kinda struggle with is one of them comes home, and they're maybe feeling a little tense, and it's hard for one of them to just kind of like soften maybe, where they wanna be defensive.
Like, "Oh, you you know, you're not just gonna come home and act like that or, or feel tense or whatever and, and take, take things out or," you know. and, and so we really helped them reposition some of that energy from, "I'm not gonna be defensive," to, "I'm going to just kinda generate the willingness, the humility, the love to see their struggle as struggle and not as attack." Okay? Because back to, you also said something earlier about kinda survival, you know, about self-preservation, right? One of the main reasons that couples will not generate the willingness to not be defensive, to actually be humble and to be servant-minded, is because they don't want to got got. I don't know how the verbiage works out here. I know it's better than left and cleft.
Rachel: Hey, now. Hey, now.
Austin: Which is still highly contested.
Rachel: Ooh.
Austin: Okay? I don't think the jury has concluded.
Rachel: I'd rather be happy than right.
Austin: So it is leave and cleave. Yes. Thank you. You are amazing.
Rachel: Bam.
Austin: Okay, so it is
Rachel: Submissive wife
Austin: It is leave and cleave. Yes. She just submitted it, so everyone, you owe me 50 bucks.
Rachel: You're the most amazing man in the whole wide world.
Austin: Th thank you. Who disagree, those who disagree with me on the last YouTube video, you are dead to me. Just kidding. We love you, but it's leave and cleave. Anyways, and so
Rachel: Oh, my word
Austin: So what we've, what we've realized is- If you're afraid that you're gonna got got, you'll really go into defense mode. You'll really armor up. You'll really put your walls up. Okay? And so, so for this example, spouse comes home, spouse has had a really rough, really tough day, maybe isn't just f you know, beaming with, infinite patience and joy and grace maybe just still decompressing kinda from the day. Instead of choosing to be kinda defensive about that, you know, like, "Oh, you, you do Y you can make dinner for yourself or you can do this, or you can do this."
Rachel: Taking it personally.
Austin: It Taking it personally. Exactly. Because if you're afraid you're gonna got got, which is like, "Oh, wow, I was all lovey to this person, and then they shoved it in my face- I look stupid now. I look, you know, really helpless now. I look really weak now," okay? If you're having any feelings like that, then you'll be really afraid to let that guard down and change your heart perspective, okay? The shift is I'm not gonna worry about being right, I'm gonna worry about being happy. So the happy shift is when my spouse is struggling, I'm gonna see them as struggling, not as attacking. Because if your spouse is struggling, they need medicine, not arrows, okay? They need medicine, not attack. They need medicine, not defense. They need medicine. They need care. They need nurture. They don't need to be reminded that they're wrong. They don't need to be reminded that they screwed up. What they actually need more than anything is just gentle care.
Rachel: And you know what's best for your heart in that moment? Is to be gentle and loving and patient. You know, it's, it's like living out being Jesus. It's, "Oh, what's going on? Hey, how can I support you?" Like, "I see that, you know maybe you're a little down. What You know, do you wanna talk about it? Can I, you know, get you something, encourage you?" Instead of attacking them. And of course, if you're attacking them, there's something going on with you. And
Austin: All attack is just struggle. All attack is just struggle, and it's an opportunity. You know? And so you could be in that situation, and you could choose to be, "Okay, I'm gonna be happy or right." Sure, in some objective universe, you could put the blame on your spouse and be like, "Well, they came home, and they were in a mood, and they weren't being very kind." And you could be like, "They're wrong."
Rachel: "I'm right."
Austin: "I'm right." But what's that gonna get you? Okay. Here's what actually matters, is instead of you giving them that, which is the arrows, it's the, it's the shield you know, it's like, "Hey, I see that you're struggling." "So here's a way I can serve you and love you," okay? 'Cause that's what grace actually is.
Rachel: Yes. I was just about to say that.
Austin: And I know we've talked about this before but there's a big difference between justice, mercy, and grace. Justice is getting what you deserve. Mercy is not getting what you deserve. Okay, that's avoiding punishment. Grace is not only not getting what you deserve but getting something you don't deserve which is love, patience, joy, all these amazing things. And so if you really wanna radically change your spouse's heart, don't just be merciful with them. Be gracious with them. That's what that means.
Rachel: Yeah. It's like our three-year-old son right now, his favorite phrase is, "That's what I'm talking about." So that's what I'm talking about, Austin, with Jesus. Being Jesus to your spouse, it's the grace, you know? It's giving them beyond what they deserve. It's giving them support, love, kindness when, yeah, you could totally sit there and be right about it.
Austin: And that's the only thing that actually changes people. Okay, think when Jesus is on the cross, "Father, forgive them, for they don't know what they're doing." How do you think those who were prosecuting and killing Jesus felt in that moment? Like, "Wow, this guy that we just killed, he literally prayed to Yahweh on our behalf- 'Father, forgive them, for they don't even know what they're doing.'" Like, whoa. Right? And so grace is the only thing that transforms people. And so again, this is something we talk a lot about, happy versus right. So anyone who's listening and watching, we just want you to really sit with that question. Is it more important to you to be happy or to be right? And it's a great bonus when it's both. And more often than not, maybe it can be both. The rightness will get figured out after connection, not before. Because when people are connected, they're naturally more humble, they're naturally more willing, they're naturally more gracious.
Okay? When they feel connected, when they feel loved. That's why, it's like a lotta times when, you know, people need transformation, we wanna get them with the Holy Spirit, okay, get them into a Christ-centered community of people so that then the behavior can change. You know, versus, well, hey, o once, once you're right, once we get you into rightness with all your behavior, then you can do this. It's like, well, no, no, no. Let's get you in relationship first. This is why, I think even when the Bible talks about when two or m or more are gathered in my name, I will be there because he wants us in relationship.
Rachel: Oh, I like that.
Austin: He wants us in relationship constantly. Think about that. Okay, when
Rachel: Instead of where you're gathered in my name in your b- Bible quiet time which he
Austin: Which he
Rachel: Can be present with
Austin: I, I, I believe
Rachel: For sure
Austin: Yeah, I believe when we pray
Rachel: But it is interesting that he said that. Instead of, like, where you're, where you are in my name. Very cool.
Austin: And I think a lot of people use this in reference to the church, right? Building up the church and meeting and congregating, and that's all good. But even, like, on, you know, my coaching calls, I always pray with my clients, you know? And one of my clients today, we were talking and just had a really profound conversation about the prayers that we share with each other on our coaching calls. And I s and we talked about this. I said, "This, I believe this is one reason why scripture tells us where two or more are gathered in my name, I will be there." 'Cause he's like, "I want you together." Because two are better than one, right? Like, we know that, you know? Like, that, that, that doesn't just apply to marriage. That applies to all life. If you're stuck in the wilderness, it'd be great if you had someone there with you versus being completely alone. Ultimately, here's the challenge. I think in our marriage, and really in every other relationship, every other area of our life, when you have an opportunity to either be right- Really think about, is there a better opportunity to be happy, to be connected okay, for the relationship to thrive?
And can I thrive in this relationship to where things like rightness can also be achieved? 'Cause I think a lot of times it only works in one way. It's not, "I'm gonna be right, and then we're gonna be happy." 'Cause people try that in their marriage all the time. It's like, "Okay, we agree that you're in the wrong now, right? Okay." Or, "Okay, great. We're a agreeing I'm in the wrong." It's like, "Oh, yeah, now we're happy." Well, that might work for one of you.
Rachel: One, yeah.
Austin: But it doesn't always work for both of you. So the focus is focus on being happy and meaning being connected being in community. And then allow that container that the two of you exist in produce the fruit of righteousness and being right okay, being upright. Okay? And I think that applies to every other relationship that we have, too. So for those of you watching, listening, that's our challenge to you, okay? just sit with that question. Are there times where I'm trading happiness for rightness when I really don't need to be right, I just wanna be connected with my spouse and give and receive love from them?
Rachel: Speaking of giving love, this holiday season, when we're recording this episode
Austin: Nonprofit shout-out
Rachel: We are shouting out the same nonprofit as last week. If you did not hear last week's episode, we do really encourage you to go listen to it. In the last portion, we talk about Samaritan's Purse and their amazing gift catalog. We will be linking that down below. But us
Austin: Mah, mah, mah
Rachel: Personally, in our family
Austin: What was that?
Rachel: We are gifting It's looking like multiple goats. Our children are
Austin: Multiple goats
Rachel: Are, are entreprenoring
Austin: We're in a multiple goat situation
Rachel: Some, some funds. And we are giving goats as a family to a family in a third world country to literally change their life. You talk about changing lives.
Austin: Mah, mah, mah.
Rachel: That changes somebody's lives. S a family's life, to have income and food and, yeah, a resource that continues to grow. So
Austin: Yeah, to grow and sustain
Rachel: Thank you for your generosity in ever participating in our nonprofit shout-outs. We really encourage you to do this one this week. And get your kids involved if you have kids. Get your family involved. It's a really, a really fun one. We're having fun with it.
Austin: Well, thank you all for watching today's episode. Please give us a like, a comment, a thumbs up. And we know today was a little bit of a shorter episode. In full transparency, it's 'cause we were monkeying with so many things in the studio. So we just Yeah. Monkeys, bananas. We talked about that earlier, right?
Rachel: Oh, my gosh, full circle.
Austin: Full circle episode. All right. Well
Rachel: It's bananas.
Austin: It, it's bananas. again, a like, comment, a rating, really appreciate it. we hope this episode's been valuable to you. We love you all. Thank you for watching. We pray for you daily. We'll see you on the next episode.