A Surefire Way to Eliminate Drama in Your Marriage

Transcribed from the episode audio and lightly edited for readability. Speaker labels are automated and may occasionally be off.

Rachel: Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Conscious Christian Marriage podcast. We're your hosts, Rachel and Austin Holt, and welcome to episode two. We're so glad that you're here and that you tuned in today. We're going to be kicking things off with appreciations for each other. we both think we'll probably do an episode on appreciation at some point because it's that important. but appreciations are a vital part of everything that we do. they're very part of our lingo with each other every day, and with our kids, and with people we're friends with and communicate with. because as Mother Teresa said She said, I wanna get it right.

Austin: You know this quote. You know it, like, perfectly.

Rachel: I say it all the time. "There's more hunger and thirst in the world for appreciation than for bread." And that's been scientifically proven. in order to be It's, it's essential to survival, actually is appreciation. So, if it's essential for survival, we wanna have it be a big part of our marriage, and it really does help us be more connected, to thrive, and to just encourage each other of where we're winning. And so we're gonna model that for you today and share our appreciations, because we hope that it'll give you, encouragement. Even you are, if you are very well-versed in appreciation, even for us when we start our coaching calls, all of our couples appreciate each other, and it encourages us every time hearing the unique specific things that all these wonderful high-level couples appreciate each other for. and it reminds me of things that I appreciate for, of Austin and him of me, so.

Austin: Yeah. Well, and one of our favorite sayings is, "What we appreciate appreciates." And that also, goes for who we appreciate. So who we appreciate appreciates. And it's like a superpower- God's given us, that the more that I appreciate you, the more your value grows to me. And so the superpower is that we can just choose to We're, this a little sneak peek to the episode on this. That I can choose to just increase your value to me just purely by appreciating you. That I can appreciate you just for appreciation's sake, that literally if I want you to be even more valuable to me, I can just call out the things in you that I appreciate. You know, that's why appreciation is a financial term, you know, because you appreciate, you grow in value to me the more I appreciate you. And it's a great parenting tool, too, but we'll talk more about that later. So, I'll go first. And again, we just want you guys to see us appreciating each other, just straight up, just, like we didn't even plan what we were gonna say, but just appreciating each other, and we want to give you ideas for ways that you can appreciate your spouse.

So- Rachel, I have two appreciations. I'm gonna do two small ones to make it a little

Rachel: Kind of sneaking one in there

Austin: Honest Yes, that's right. so appreciation number one is I really appreciate how present you've been with the kids lately, just really being on their level, being present with them, slowing down, letting them, you know, like for example, one of our kids got a gift and it's got like sand in it, and I, normally I'd be like, "Play with that outside. I don't want sand all over the house." But you were just like, "Yeah, like we're on the kitchen table," and our son's like playing in there, digging in the sand. And it was just, I just really appreciate that you were just really present with him, you know? And, number two, I just appreciate how you and I have worked together to just restructure our holidays to where it works better for what our family values the most, which is Christmas being Christ-centered and Christmas being more centric around our family unit. And I just feel like we've had a really great holiday season, and I just appreciate you being willing to, like, have that conversation, like, like we teach other couples, but being able to have the conversation of, like, designing things in our life that work the most for our family unit.

So. I appreciate you.

Rachel: Well, I receive that, and I also appreciate you for leading us in that, because you really did lead us in that. And I was like, "Yes, this " I, anyway, I've enjoyed the results of our decisions together, so thank you for leading us in that. And also, thank you for being my sexy man that steps in and does the hard things that I don't wanna do. you've been in the mud a lot lately solving problems. and the donkey debacle you handled so flawlessly.

Austin: That's another episode, just for the donks. Farm life.

Rachel: The donks.

Austin: Yeah. Getting shocked by the electric fence over and over again.

Rachel: Yes, you tested it so many times, and I'm so glad that you did it, 'cause I don't wanna do that.

Austin: There's no lasting effects, you know, of the electric fence.

Rachel: For those of you that are listening, he just twitched.

Austin: All right. Well

Rachel: So thank you. I appreciate you for all that.

Austin: Yeah, and I receive that. So, okay. So today's topic, really excited to talk about what we're gonna talk about today, because this is really foundational. It's actually like something that when we were going through, like, our list, we have like a spreadsheet of things that we, we teach or, like, we'll do workshops on or, or just work with couples on. And, and this is like one of those things where we're like, you know, this is one of the things that has to come first. You know? Like we're assuming that, like, if you're here listening to this podcast, like you're a Christian, you're married, like you already understand, like, how, our faith is so important to, like, the development of our marriage. And of course, we're gonna talk a lot about our faith and marriage and, and God's plan for marriage like, throughout this whole thing, right? But thinking through, like, a really pragmatic, practical thing what we're gonna talk about today has to, like, come first before a lot of other tactics, concepts or strategies about marriage. like, if you can get this right, it'll set you up for success.

It'll, it's a big domino that knocks over so many dominoes. Whether you've been we've used this in couples that have been married, like, for a month and couples that have been married for, like, years, like 30, 40, 50 years, and it's like, wow, a light bulb just went off. Like, I can think about a bunch of couples right now that have been literally been married 30, 40, 50 years, and we go through this with them, and they're like, "Man," like, "Okay, that makes everything make a lot more sense." So really important topic, super foundational. Rachel, what's our topic? Tell everyone about it. Give a little overview and we'll go from there.

Rachel: Expectations versus agreements. So hopefully after this episode, you will have been able to spot where you might have expectations in your marriage, which would be something that you are assuming or expecting your spouse to do, but you haven't created a win-win agreement, which is where both parties say, "Yes, this is something I would like to experience in our marriage and I will commit to doing that." So do you have any other context on that?

Austin: Yeah, I mean, just- You know, agreements are expectations that were spoken out loud and agreed to.

Rachel: Yes. I love it.

Austin: Yeah, that's what they are. You're right. And, and so we we've watched couples And, and early in our marriage we did this, before we were trained, we ran our m our marriage on expectations. You know? And so then there's constant

Rachel: Ugh

Austin: Letdown. There's constant drama. There's constant learning opportunities.

Rachel: I could, like, feel it. Like where it's like, oh why didn't he do that one thing? He must not love me because he didn't think to do that one thing that I thought he would do. Like being married, I thought this would, this is how it would be, or he would always take the trash out because he's a man.

Austin: E expectations are just the tool of the, you know, the victim, the villain, and even the hero. You know? you know, it's a way that we victimize ourselves. It's a way that we villainize, you know. and so, you know, we decided a long time ago we would not run our marriage based on statements like you just said, like, "Oh, I just figured that my spouse would do this," or, "I assumed they would do that," or, you know, "I just hoped that they would," blank, you know? And in instead we use agreements. And again, agreements are between two people. You know, one thing we like to teach, couples is that, you know, agreements are between two people. Commitments are between us and God. Especially us as Christians. Like what I commit to, like even when we got married, like our vows, like that was me committing before God to God that I would do these things for you. You know? But agreements are between people, you know?

It's like this is something that we both vocalized. We came and we found a win-win, okay? We found like this great way to come together, and we're gonna stick to that, and we can be held accountable to that. 'Cause expectations you can't be held accountable to, period.

Rachel: Yeah. So like if you don't take the trash out, but you didn't agree that you would be the one taking the trash out then I can't hold you accountable to it because you never said, "Yeah, babe, I will take the trash out every day."

Austin: Yeah, I will do that. Right. You just maybe assumed I would. You know, because

Rachel: Because maybe the way I was raised and how my family did it, it was, like, more the manly chore, so.

Austin: Yeah. Well, I was raised in a home where men never touched trash. Okay? They were waited on hand and foot. Just kidding. but yeah. So today's topic, Agreements versus Expectations, and we really wanna help couples just kinda have a high level overview and of what that means and what their marriage could look like if they dropped the expectations and started to run their marriage with agreements only. And how many things they could trace back to, especially points of resistance, you know, back to, did we have an agreement or not? 'Cause that's common language for us. It's like, "Wait, do we have an agreement around that?" And I think that it's, like, kind of a rare, thing when we find something that we don't have an agreement on. It's actually kinda funny, right? Like you know, something'll yeah, like, "Huh, do we have an agreement around that? Oh, I guess we didn't. Let's make one."

Rachel: Probably 'cause we added something new to our lives or something. I don't know.

Austin: Yeah. It is fun, like, just finding ways to just further get on the same page. And so this topic is important because, again, like this is a big domino that when couples can knock down. And there's lots of intricacies. Like when we're working with couples, like there's nuances to, really understanding. So, like today, like we're just gonna give kind of a 30,000 foot look, but you know, it matters so much because if we don't have agreements, then we don't really have, like, a foundation, like a structure, a framework to how we progress as, as couples, you know, as we progress in our marriage. And so, we wanted to talk about this today because we want couples to, you know, really have a kind of a frame of reference for how Y like if they're gonna learn, if you're gonna learn anything from, like, our podcast or anything from, like, our materials or any of our stuff, like you have to have this fundamental agreement in place that you're gonna be open-minded, humble, growth-oriented.

Like that you're gonna actually care about, like, even thinking the fruits of the spirit, you know? Like like you have to be open to all of those and agree to move towards that. Like agree to move towards the picture of Christ, agree to move towards a picture of humility, you know, and self-control. You know, or a lot of this is gonna feel like a waste of time. You know? Like, just agreeing to the fundamental idea that you're willing to grow and you're willing to learn. That, in and of itself, is an agreement that can change a marriage altogether.

Rachel: Yeah. And so when you implement agreements and you shift your marriage from having expectations to agreements, it can really change your marriage in the sense that there's, for one, there's this, like, peace. There's a security of just knowing. You know, some of the perceived maybe excuse of not doing it would be like, "Oh, well, isn't that so rigid?" You know, like, "Oh, oh, you have agreements around everything? Isn't that, like, rigid?" That's, like, the w only word I can think of at this moment, but it's actually not because we don't, we're not spending our creative, and emotional, and mental energy on guessing. On playing this, like these shadow games. That's like this is a perfect example of, like, a shadow game in marriage where you're like, "Well, is he gonna do that? Well, if he doesn't do this," or

Austin: It's

Rachel: "if he doesn't bring this home, or if he doesn't say this."

Austin: It's even, like, in sex, you know? Where it's like, "Oh, I bet she'll like this." It's like, I'd rather you just

Rachel: Tell me

Austin: Tell me. So then, and then, like, I have this expectation of, like, how you will react or what you'll say or not say or how you'll respond versus, like, let's just create it together. And let's create it with agreements. So we know and we're not guessing.

Rachel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you know what's sexy? Is agreements. Because you know you can rely on each other and there's that trust, but just this, like, peace, and ultimately just eliminating drama. Because expectations are, just create drama.

Austin: Yeah. Right. Well, I think that, you know, it's like I, I like that you pointed that out about the resistance because it is true. Like, a lot of people say, "Oh, well, that just sounds too rigid." Really what they're saying is, "I don't wanna be held accountable." You know? Because most people, they would also say, or a lot of couples have, you know, we've heard say, like, "Well, we've always done it this way. Like, we've always just kinda, you know, like if they really love me, they'll just know to do these things." Which is, like, the most whacked out piece of marriage advice I've ever heard. Like, "Oh, like if they love me, they would just know." Well, like if they most people are not modeled a great marriage. They just weren't, and they're still not modeled a great marriage to this day because the divorce rate's still 50% or more in certain places. So, like, like you've got a one in two shot of the marriages in your life that you look to for advice or to wisdom of being flawed that could literally lead to separation.

You know? And so a lot of people say, "Well, it's just this is the way I've always done it, the way I've always seen it, and, you know, if they really love me, they'll just know." But that's bogus. Like if they really love me

Rachel: Bogus

Austin: You know, they will communicate And they'll, they'll end withholding with me. They'll share what's on their heart. They'll they'll want to come to a place of where we can come up with this win-win agreement for how we wanna run everything. 'Cause every single thing in our marriage, we have an agreement around. Everything. Which is cool because then, like you said, we don't have to spend our creativity guessing or fixing problems. We just spend our creativity on creating agreements which give us a really good framework for creating the exact marriage we want. Like, our agreements, they're just recipes to figure out everything that we want.

Rachel: Now, an agreement has to start, though, by a spouse bringing it up and not withholding. So it, it goes from an expectation in your mind to actually saying it out loud in love in an honoring way, which we will talk about withholding soon because that's something that we're super passionate about, and also makes a massive difference in your marital connection and flow and, you know, re removal of all drama. but it does require not withholding. It requires saying, "Hey, actually, there's this thing that I've noticed myself getting upset about when you didn't do it, but I realized we don't have an agreement around it." And, and when you go, when you leave this episode, you should probably have your spouse listen to it or talk to them about it before you all of a sudden start saying, "We're gonna make agreements." You need to ask them- "Can we make an agreement to make an agreement around things?"

Austin: Or le let's, let's make an agreement to get more strategic about our marriage. Maybe that's step one for you. Maybe you're already in this world, and so what we're, you're, you're gonna learn today is just gonna stack on top of the, the foundation you have. But maybe you're just starting to dip your toe into, like, investing in your marriage. So yeah, like, one of the first steps that you need to make is, like, hey, like, I wanna get on the same page together. Let's start taking in resources together to make things better. You know, and another thing you said actually kind of brought me, reminded me of what our, our key scripture is today, just about telling the truth. Like, when you f when you feel something, when you think something, the importance of just being able to tell your spouse the truth, without fear. There's so much conditioning on why you shouldn't tell the truth. Afraid you're gonna get in trouble, afraid you're gonna offend your spouse, upset your spouse, or, or you're gonna say something that's gonna upset them, and then they're gonna retaliate against you.

And so I can't, I just g even count how many times we've had conversations with what even seem like really happy couples where they have a really hard time just telling the truth to each other. And so today's key scripture comes from 1 John 2:5. "But whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected."

Rachel: Perfected. That's a big one.

Austin: Yeah. And I think that one of the, the best points we can take away from that is like, God's love, is incredible because God always keeps his word with us. You know? And so I think that it's a beautiful representation, kind of a manifestation of God's love when we keep our word to each other which starts with telling our truth about everything to each other. So when we can tell the truth and we can make an agreement about how we're going to handle certain things and honor that that's us keeping our word. that's us, sticking to the agreement that we made together, because we made it together 'cause then we become more reliable. You know, that's a, that's a marriage killer is when couples aren't reliable. You know? Like, when a husband's like, "Yeah, I'm gonna do this," and then he doesn't. And then the feminine's like, "Well, I'll just do it anyways since you're not willing to do it." And then she starts to become masculine, and then, you know, that's a whole 'nother, whole 'nother topic.

But I think the more reliable we become with each other, the closer, the more connected, you know, couples can be, and I think that starts with telling the truth and saying you're gonna do something and then doing it. And expectations are just a total setup for none of that happening. But agreements are a framework where that can actually thrive.

Rachel: Well, let's give people examples because some good feedback we get all the time is, "I just love when you give examples"- and straight from our marriage. People like that, too. So what's an example, like, share with the listeners an example of an agreement that we have in our marriage.

Austin: I think a big one, like the first one that comes up for me is just the agreement that we don't speak for each other. That's a big one. Because that led to a lot of learning opportunities for us early on when we would just speak for each other. Like, "Oh, yeah, I'm sure Rachel would love to do that."

Rachel: "Yeah, let's hang out." Yeah.

Austin: Yeah. "Well, I'm sure Rachel would love to volunteer for that," or, "I'm sure Rachel, yeah, she'll bring this to that," or, "Yeah, I'm sure she'll, I'm sure she, you know, would be happy to, you know, X, Y, and Z." And we really shifted years ago really 'cause some of our mentors, really modeled this for us, but this idea of like, I will not speak for Rachel because I'm not you. Now, if I have permission to speak for you on a certain topic or something, that's different. But generally, you know, it's like, "Hey, would you and Rachel like to come to dinner with us?" I, I might say, "I would enjoy that. I will ask Rachel and see what she thinks." So then you and I can have a conversation where you can share like, "Yeah, I'd love to do that," or, "No, I would not enjoy doing that." You know, or, "Austin, we already have 30 commitments that day. We can't we're already going to dinner with someone because you're kind of the gatekeeper of the calendar."

And so

Rachel: Another agreement we have

Austin: That's, that's another agreement we have

Rachel: You see

Austin: Is that Rachel is in charge of the Holt family calendar. It's in orange in Gmail. It's the Holt family calendar, and she's the queen of it. The boss of it.

Rachel: Scheduling is a great one for a lot of learning opportunities, which is what we call, what you might call conflict, we call it learning opportunities because that's what it is because we learn, we pivot, we shift. And very early on we had a lot of learning opportunities, and sometimes Google Calendar can fail us, so sometimes we have snafus but we have agreements around when we have snafus. but yeah, that's a great one to implement a agreement around is scheduling. So

Austin: So what's a good example maybe from a recent couple we've worked with or talked to or?

Rachel: Yeah. So, recently we, when we did the foundations course at a church, there was a couple that had been married for, like, 30 years, and she said, basically she was sharing how making agreements really shifted things for them because she noticed that, She had always had adrenaline and trauma around the dishes. Around when she cooked a meal, like just growing up, that's what their family did. They always, you know, the cook doesn't clean. And so her husband wasn't cleaning or cleaning all the way. Like, if she would ask, sometimes he'd just, like, dump the th the you know, do it in the sink, you know, for the sake of soaking or whatever. And so they kind

Austin: Another classic. "Oh, they're soaking."

Rachel: Yeah. So they came up with really clear agreements that was win-win. So he did agree that, "Yes, when you cook, I will do the dishes. I will put them all the way in the dishwasher." And so now if he tries to soak them, you know, she can say, "Hey, you s you know, we have this agreement."

Austin: Yeah, we made an agreement.

Rachel: And she said, "Man, this is " Both of them were like, "I love this. We now have this clear agreement around what we're going to do at the end of the day and when we eat," so.

Austin: Yeah. Well, I love that example because it just reminds, everyone of the importance of agreements have to be win-wins. Okay? What people have to understand is that if you don't create a win-win agreement, it'll eventually be a l a lose-lose agreement. Okay? Because a, a, a win-win agreement's the only thing that people can sustain. A win-lose can be sustained for a little bit of time, but a win-lose eventually becomes a lose-lose. Okay? Like, even for that couple, if it was a win-lose, like okay, as a, it's Let's just say it was a win for her that he did the dishes, but it was a lose for him because h because it really upset him to do the dishes for whatever reason. Okay? Let's, we don't have to go there. Then he would only sustain that for a short period of time. Now, their win-win was in, like, hey, he didn't love to do the cooking. And, and she didn't love to do the cleaning, so it's kinda perfect.

It was like, "Hey, the win for me is that you continue to clean. You, you shop and clean, and cook, and that's great." Okay?

Rachel: And that helps me to cook more, knowing I don't have to clean up after.

Austin: So it was a win for him because she would do the cooking and loved it. And it was a win, for her because he would then clean up. And then they were, like, a great partnership together. Okay? And I believe that God made every couple intelligent enough and creative enough to have win-win agreements. 'Cause so many times we teach we don't teach. The world teaches couples like, "Oh, you need to sacrifice." You know, but, like, for you and I, like, I don't, I don't lose so that you gain. Like, when I do things for you where you gain, like, it's a, it, it, it's great for me. You know? And so, like, we are smart enough to figure out like, I don't need to lose for you, to get to gain. You know? Like, I, we, we are smart enough to figure out a way that I can gain as you gain, and you can gain as I gain, you know? And so

Rachel: That's how it should be. For sure.

Austin: So I just love that, like, that's how they figured that out for themselves, and then it was like, "Oh," like, great. So then now that agreement is made for them, and they don't have to have any drama about it going forward. Like, they don't have to even think about it going forward. Like, for the most part, unless otherwise agreed upon, she would prep and do dinner, and he would clean and clean up this certain way. And so then they're great. It's like simple, a super simple example that's, again, kind of a cliche example, but it happens all the time.

Rachel: But it was causing them some legitimate drama and frustration. And it's just that simple. Like, the shift can be that simple, and sometimes it's funny once you're out of it to realize- "Oh, man, that was just a really simple pivot." You know, sometimes there are things like, "Okay, we we're gonna dig deep and heal this wound," or, you know, something that happened when I was young, "I'm gonna work through this." But a lot of things in our marriages can just be shifted through simple pivots and and implementation of things like expectations and agreements.

Austin: Okay, so three big takeaways. You know, if we want everyone to take this 20, 30-minute episode, however long this is gonna be and, you know, kinda boil it down to three nuggets, there's three things we want people to really take away from this. What's number one?

Rachel: Number one is you can't hold someone to expectations. You cannot hold your spouse accountable to an expectation that you have.

Austin: Yeah, that they never agreed to. Yeah, okay. the second thing is agreements only work when they're win-wins. Okay? An agreement will not work as a win-lose. If it's a win-lose, it'll eventually be a lose-lose every time. Every single time it becomes a, a lose-lose. Okay, and number three.

Rachel: Agreements eliminate drama. So if you're experiencing frustration, adrenaline, yeah, n routinely being irritated at your spouse about something just think how could you create an agreement around probably what you're feeling frustration about.

Austin: Yeah. A powerful question is, do we have an agreement around this? Or, what agreement am I forgetting about here? we, if we ask that question and we're willing to find it, and if there's not an agreement, we're willing to make one, then everything changes. You know? And so you can't hold someone accountable to expectations, agreements only work when they're win-win, and agreements eliminate drama. Okay. So we're gonna pause really quick, and we're actually gonna do what we call our nonprofit shout-out. So every episode, we're going to shout out a different nonprofit, maybe some of the same ones over time, but pr nonprofits we love, we support, or ones that we just wanna highlight because they're freaking awesome. Okay? And so today's highlight is gonna be Operation Underground Railroad. Okay? You can learn more about Operation Underground Railroad at ourrescue.org. And, this is a, a nonprofit that was started by Tim Ballard. if you've seen, the movie The Sound of Freedom, The Sound of Freedom is based on Operation Underground Railroad.

They're freeing women, and children all across the world of sex trafficking and sex slavery. you can get involved in a lot of ways. You can get educated. We've done stuff through their, their website that helps you you know, learn about how to detect the signs of sexual abuse and, and human trafficking. And so, please pause this episode. go to ourrescue.org. Learn more about them. donate some money to them, even if it's five bucks. It doesn't matter, five bucks, 10 bucks. let 'em know you heard about 'em through us and that we love them. yeah, and once you go do that, then come back to the episode and hit play. It's that important, okay? It's that important that we support our nonprofits. So, so Rachel, what's

Rachel: All right, now

Austin: What's a big action

Rachel: I was gonna say now that you're back

Austin: Yeah, now that you're back

Rachel: Because you paused and checked out Operation Underground Railroad, Austin, what is one big action item, implementation, or commitment that couples can take to im implement this?

Austin: Actually, it's easy. They make an agreement to run their marriage with agreements and not expectations. At the end of this episode, they can just go, "Hey, we're making an agreement. Would you like to make this agreement with me? Would it be a win for you to end drama in our marriage and just say, 'Hey, we're gonna run our marriage with agreements instead of expectations?'" There's a lot of things we could say, but that's the big one for me, is will you make an agreement with me that we'll run our marriage on agreements and not expectations anymore?

Rachel: Yeah, I love it. Awesome. Well, we appreciate you, our listener, for tuning in. We honor and appreciate you for being the type of person to invest in your personal growth. Y if you're listening, you're our kind of people because we love people who care about their growth and take the call that God has on their life very seriously to live the abundant life, to continue to seek, being more like Christ every day. So, you can check out our website, theconsciouschristianmarriage.com, if you wanna learn more. If not, we'll see you on episode three.

Austin: Yep. See you guys.