How to Rely on God and Also Get to Work

Transcribed from the episode audio and lightly edited for readability. Speaker labels are automated and may occasionally be off.

Austin: Hey, everybody. Austin and Rachel Holt here, and welcome to the Conscious Christian Marriage podcast. We are your hosts, and we're very excited to hang with you guys today.

Rachel: Yeah. And today is a special episode. It is part three in our series on mutual exclusives. So today's gonna be fun as we dive into one of those mutual exclusives. But before we do that and tell you what that is we're going to do our appreciations. So, Austin, I appreciate you for your hard work, specifically this last month and the last, oh, forever. But this last month specifically, I have seen you working really hard, getting up extra early, putting in hours so that you can still be with our family. and that looks like less sleep for you, which somehow you're like the Energizer bunny. I don't understand. I'm not gonna lie, I'm a little jealous.

Austin: I'm just, I'm just wired

Rachel: I'm just glad it's working

Austin: A hair differently, you know?

Rachel: For our family. but yeah, I appreciate your dedication to what God has called you to and taking action on that, and dedication to our family, working hard for our family, but also working hard so you can be with our family. And you've never, ever sacrificed that.

Austin: Oh. Well, thank you.

Rachel: So thank you for that.

Austin: Yeah. Well, one thing I wanna appreciate you for is, specifically something from Caroline's birthday party yesterday. And when we first, became friends and, started dating, you introduced me to this concept of, shields of honor. And, you know, admittedly, when you shared it with me back s like 15 or oh, 13, 14 years ago, whatever, when we were just friends, just dating, you know, like, that was kind of a foreign concept to me. Like, this idea of like, hey, like it's someone's birthday party. Instead of just getting them gifts, like, we're going to, like, shower them with, like, honor, was like a really new concept to me, and it kind of almost made me uncomfortable, you know, in the beginning. And, and since we've married, we've done this at every birthday party where, you know, everyone circles up around, the birthday girl, birthday boy, and just says one thing they love and appreciate and honor in them. And so I just love that you're, you introduced that element, like, into my life and into our family, and you've always been very unapologetic about it.

'Cause some people, like you can tell, they're like, they don't know quite how to act. Like, oh man like we're supposed to, like, say intimate, meaningful things about someone we love? And it's like yeah. Yeah. And, and the presents are great, and their presence there is great. But really, it's amazing when people speak life over our kids. And so I just appreciate that yesterday at the birthday party, which I kind of normally lead that, you led that, and I just love your, your leadership and just being able to get up in front of a pretty big group of people and be like, "Hey, now we're gonna move to the best part of the party which is just speaking love and life and, and honor over our daughter." So just app appreciate you for that.

Rachel: Thank you. It was a good time.

Austin: Yeah, it was a good time. So, just recapping us here real quick, and thank you for your appreciation, of me. And, so just recapping us real quick, so this is video three of our first ever series, and the series title, like Rachel said, is Mutual Exclusives. First week we gave kind of a high level, 30,000 foot overview of five different mutual exclusives that we think if, we take a look at, we might be able to improve different areas of our marriage, life, and faith by realizing that these mutual exclusives are not so

Rachel: Exclusive. Mutually exclusive.

Austin: Not, yeah. Not so, yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say not so mutual, but exclusive was actually the right word. so thank you for that. Not so exclusive. And so last week, we talked about, the kind of that mutual exclusive of, you know, you can be a Christian and get advice from the great counselor, AKA- God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, and you can go to counseling, and you can have a coach, and you can go to therapy. And you can seek advice and counsel from other, advisors. And so but this week we've got a really, really great topic, and I'm really excited to, to dive into this one. So today's mutual exclusive is our effort and God's divine intervention are mutually exclusive. And maybe you've heard it like this. You don't need to be concerned or worried or do anything on your own. God will fight all your battles for you. You don't need to do any work. You don't need to You know, you're not the one that's gonna do anything.

It's gonna all be God. You know? And, and so yeah, that's a

Rachel: And other ways you might have heard it is like, "Just lay it at the cross." "Just give it to God." Which we're not saying those things are bad, right? Which we'll explain in this episode that it is good to lay things at the cross. It is good to give things to God. But a lot of times, that's all that's said. And while maybe the people that are saying that mean well in, even in this context might agree but a, a lot of people are walking away with the message, all I need to do is pray to God give my marriage to God pray for God to heal it, and that's what I'm doing. That's what I need to do. And so

Austin: And we agree with that

Rachel: What we're discussing today is the balance of both.

Austin: Yeah, yeah. And we agree with that statement, but what we also agree with is while we do that while we lay it at the foot of the cross, while we give it to God, we also step into action and we become obedient to what He's already called us to do. You know? And so kind of the new story, the new version of this idea, instead of it being our effort and God's divine intervention or sovereignty are mutually exclusive, we're gonna say that you can count on God to show up for you while you pick up your sword and do your part in the battle. Like, if we're gonna use battle as the example. You know you can rely on God and you can count on God to fight your battles for you and with you, and at the same time you can respond to God okay, by picking up your sword and entering the battle. Because we really believe that this beautiful place exists between God's divine intervention and His action and our participation with God.

And I think it's pretty clear when you look at the entire Bible, the entire story of God and the entire story of our faith, He wants our participation You know

Rachel: He does

Austin: He, if he wanted it just to be this giant galactic one-sided relationship- I don't think he would have designed anything to look like it looks like. You know? f we wouldn't have free will, you know, first of all. And two, there wouldn't be this, the, the, here, the whole Bible would say, would have one sentence, and it would be, "Just pray, that I'll do everything, and that's all you need to know." But instead of that there's 66 letters, you know, a compiling of a lot of text, okay? That gives us detailed instructions, examples, scenarios, context history.

Rachel: To help us take action.

Austin: Yeah, to help us take action. To help us res- I mean, and some people don't like the phrase take action, 'cause it's so, like, life coach-y, but y you could, you could Christianese it a little bit and just say respond. You know? There's so many places in the Bible where we're already given marching orders. We're already given instruction on, what taking action looks like as a believer, okay? But, so let's talk about first why this mutual exclusive is, is dangerous, okay? So why, why, Rachel, is this mutual exclusive, why is it dangerous? Why is it potentially harmful? What, why does it potentially do more harm than good when you tell someone, "Hey, you don't need to do anything. You just let God fight all your battles for you." "You just pray. He'll do it all for you." Like, why is it, why can that be dangerous?

Rachel: Yeah. Well, one, it help, it enables Christians to stay stuck. It enables them to be waiting on God and to think that they're doing the right thing, but really, they're, they're stuck. They're they're not taking action, and it en it enables them to actually use the excuse of waiting on God by not doing the thing that they might actually know would help them get those results or help them to, answer the prayer. Like, you know, for example, you know, wanting to be healthy or praying for God to heal some sort of illness in your body, but not taking action on, how can I be more healthy? How can I work out? How can I, you know, stop eating inflammatory foods? Am I doing research on what causes this? Am I doing research on what I can do in my body? You know, God has given us answers. God has given us doctors. And so anyway, it enables us to kind of just use the excuse of we're waiting on God instead of taking action.

Austin: Yeah, I mean, I, as I reflect on that, I th just think about how many times we've helped a couple or just helped individuals, you know, where they've said, like, "Well, I've just, I've, I, I've been giving this to God for all these years." "I've, I've been letting him fight the battle for me, and, and I'm still here. Like, I'm still stuck in this place. You know, like, I, you know, I thought that's what I had to do, you know?" "And I'm wondering, you know, I'm wondering why, you know, God is not stepping in. Like, I'm wondering why. Like, could it really be God's will that I should suffer for all these years, you know?" Or, "Am I not good enough? Does God not love me enough?" You know? Like, that gets people into some of those dangerous questions, you know, where where sometimes instead of praying that God would, would create with us and participate with us and would help equip us to partner with Him, a lot of times when we put it all on God, that's when those dangerous questions start to be asked, you know?

It's like, "Well, God, you're like a loving God, and you say that, anything I pray for in your name, you know, will be given to me, and I've been praying for this, and it's not happening," you know? And I think that's because sometimes people have heard one too many times that you don't have to do anything. You just need to give it to God. And I, like, and I think you said this earlier, I appreciate the essence of that idea like giving it to God. But what does it look like to give it to God? You know, when we give it to God, and we put it in God's court, we gotta realize we're already in God's court. We've been given, like, the playbook. Like, we have the Bible, you know, and we have the we have the great intercessor. You know, like, we have the gift of the Holy Spirit, you know? And so if we're gonna give it to God, then that means we are to, put our situation into a different realm of rules and operations.

You know, like, if it's in God's realm, you know, if we're giving it to God, then we are to respond to it by how God tells us to act, you know? And so, and He definitely doesn't tell us to do nothing, you know? And so, I think it, not only does that idea enable a Christian to be stuck, but it can actually help feed a story and a tendency in their brain to be lazy about what they want. You know? It's like, "Well, if, I'm just waiting on God. Like, I'm just waiting on Him to do it. Like, if it's His will, He'll do it." I've just heard that way too many times. Like, "Well, if it's God's will, then yeah, it's gonna happen." It, it, and it's like, you can affect a lot more than you think, you know? Like, you could say i if, if I'm supposed to go to the gym, it's God's will. Like, I, if, if I end up going, it's, it's God.

Well, I, I mean, there's an element to that that's, that's true, but if you're waiting on God to put it on a neon sign, you know, in your bedroom for you- He's probably never gonna g g gonna give that to you, you know? And so, you know, how many times have we heard people say, "Well, if it's God's will, it'll just happen." You know? Versus you know, I'm going to rely on God to do X, Y, and Z in my life and to help me fight these battles and help heal my marriage and help heal these relationships. And while that's happening, I'm going to get started on how God calls me to respond, how God calls me to step into action, how God calls me into works versus just waiting. You know? But I think it can, it can accidentally fuel that, the side of our flesh that, you know, most people are predisposed to being lazy. They're actually predisposed to the path of least resistance, to doing the least amount of work, because that's what our brain tells us to do.

Like, our brain wants us to be safe, right?

Rachel: Mm-hmm. Conserve energy.

Austin: Yeah. The brain wants to conserve energy. It wants to conserve the, the big battery, you know that, that only recharges once we go to sleep. And so if our brain is already slightly predisposed to being like, "Hey, use as little energy as possible," and if our heart is like, "Hey, let's be the least vulnerable as possible-" and then if we're told, "Hey, you don't have to do anything, just- Put it in God's hands. Then there's like three major forces that are going to help you justify just being stuck and justify actually not taking action. You know, and so, and again, mutual exclusives are about extremes, so that's, that's why we're talking about this. This mutual exclusive also goes to the extreme of, well, I don't have to take personal responsibility

Rachel: That's why I was waiting I was waiting for a way to jump in here.

Austin: Well, yeah. So, yeah, like I don't have to take personal responsibility for anything because if it's God's will, He'll do it. So I, you know, I, I just and I don't wanna interfere with God's will, right?

Rachel: Yeah. I think that's another way that it's dangerous is we think it's a way of justifying not taking responsibility, for example, praying for healing in your marriage. I can't tell you how many times I've heard somebody say that, but they're, they're not taking any action in their personal life. They think, "I'm just gonna pray for God." "Pray for God to heal my marriage. Pray, I've been praying. I've been praying for God to heal my marriage." Well, when they could be asking the question, "What am I doing to create my reality?" "What am I contributing to the marriage? What do I need to do to help this heal? Who do I need to seek, you know, what advice, what counseling, what help?" all of that when it's both. And so not taking personal responsibility will keep you stuck for sure.

Austin: Well, imagine, you know, again, like you're, you're let's just say that you're praying that to God, that, "God, I want you to heal my marriage." And for some of you listening, that might feel like a battle. Might be like a, a little battle that happens a little bit once a day, or it might feel like an ongoing battle, right? And if you say, "God, fight my battles for me," okay? there's a big difference between saying, "God, fight my battles," and, "I will use you to fight my battles." Like, that's very different. Right? So if I say, "God, you fight my battles," and if you want this marriage to work, then, then nothing's impossible with God and nothing can stop God, right? Like, that's what people wanna say. Like, "Well, God, I'm putting it in your hands, and if you want my marriage to be great, well, then no one can stop you because you're, you're, you're all-powerful." Well, of course God wants your marriage to be great.

So then why are 50% of marriages still ending in divorce? And why is that number still really high even in the church you know, for professing Christians? It's better, but it's still high for professing Christians. And so we know God wants your marriage to be great. We know He's good enough to do it. He's powerful enough to do it. So then why are marriages still ending? Well, there's a big difference between, "God, you fight my battles," and, "God, I will use your ways to fight my battles while I'm waiting for you to win the battle." Okay, and we're gonna talk There's, there's that's a little nod to something we're gonna say in a little bit. But imagine if that couple said, "God, while I'm waiting for you to divinely heal my marriage, because you can do it while I'm waiting for that, I'm gonna get to work, okay? I'm going to pray that the Holy Spirit would help me produce fruits of the Spirit, okay?

I'm going to be in the Word. I'm going to see a counselor. I'm going to take a course on marriage, read a book on marriage. I'm gonna, I'm gonna find an advisor or a counselor that can help me see parts of myself that I, I'm not seeing very well so that I can show up better in my marriage, so I can support my spouse better, so I can be more like Christ to them while I'm waiting for you to do it." Because we know God can just snap His fingers and do it. But we've seen time and time again, God wants our participation. He wants to co-create life with us. Because a lot of times when God snaps His fingers, there's no lesson.

Rachel: Right, and then we get ourselves in that same s position because we didn't learn the lesson that got us out.

Austin: Yeah, and, and sometimes God works miracles, but sometimes the miracle is the lesson. Because think about the things you and I have gone through. God could have just made those miraculous, but some of those things, instead of pulling a miracle, He pulled a lesson. And now it is miraculous that we've learned that lesson, and now the the roadmap to that lesson is a toolkit in our toolb or, or is a tool in our toolkit. So now we can help other couples go through it, whereas Like, so for example, let's just say that I, I prayed, "God, make my biceps bigger." And I know we've talked about this on the podcast before. My biceps are plenty big. They're, they're huge actually. and so if I just prayed, "God, give me giant biceps," if He gave me giant biceps, like all of a sudden my biceps went from boom to bam, okay? That would be miraculous, right? But I didn't learn how to do it. Right? I didn't learn how to produce giant biceps.

Rachel: So you don't keep the biceps up.

Austin: Well, one, yeah, I don't keep the biceps up, but two, I can't help other men figure out how to make their biceps gigantic.

Rachel: Y yes.

Austin: Okay? Which isn't a problem 'cause mine already are. But, so imagine if that was happening in our marriage, where we realize God is either going to do the miraculous because we pray for it, or He knows that what would be better for the kingdom, which everything we, everything God does in our life is not necessarily the best for us. It's gonna be His will, right? We pray for God's will on Earth as it is in Heaven, right? We want the best for God, for the Kingdom of God, and for our lives, and sometimes He knows there's better things for us than we know. Okay? So, so not only is it dangerous for our marriage to believe that, because it will keep us stuck. It'll help us justify being lazy and indifferent. But it's also dangerous for the rest of the world, okay? Because other people are going to suffer if we don't participate. Other people are gonna suffer if we don't participate in God's work in the world.

'Cause we could pray all day long for, for people to be fed, for people to be clothed, for people to be given something to drink. We could pray for that all day long, and, well, if it's God's will, God's all-knowing, all-powerful. If God wants that person to be fed, he'll be fed. Well, I can promise you that the 10,000 kids that die a day of hunger, God is sad over, okay? Like, He wants them to be fed, okay? He does. And He could snap His fingers and do it, but that doesn't solve the systemic issue of world hunger, okay? He wants, He w- He wants to participate with the church and with, His, His Christians to solve that problem so that God could get the glory for it. Okay? And so, and again, this last thing and then we'll, we'll move on to kind of the new story is, number one- This mutual exclusive can teach us to ignore baseline commandments. Like, we've already been given marching orders.

Okay? So yes, we can pray and rely on God to show up in our life, but we can also respond to everything we've already been told to do. Love thy neighbor as thyself. Love Lord your God with our heart, soul, mind, and strength. Go and make disciples of all nations. orphans, widows, like, there are so many commandments given to us. It's like, this is your baseline instruction. Okay? And if we're to love the Lord our God with our heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love our neighbor as we love ourself, that is a ton of action.

Rachel: Yeah, just those two things you mentioned.

Austin: That that's a lot to do. Like, think about just loving your neighbor as you love yourself. Loving your spouse as you love yourself. Okay, even loving your enemy. Like, imagine what all that looks like. That's a ton of instruction. And then, of course, God defines love, and Paul defines love, and, you know, and so, yeah. And lastly, and I think we mentioned this earlier, this mutual exclusive can lead us to questioning our faith. Okay, where someone says, "God, I gave my battle to you, and you're not doing anything yet. Why? Am I am I, like, am I too sinful? Am I too bad? Am I too far gone? Am I not worth your Am I not worth your time, God? Am I not worth your divinity?" "You solved so-and-so's problem. Like, why aren't you solving mine?" "Like, you healed so-and-so. Why aren't you healing me?" Okay. It can, it can, it can kinda trap us into this, this mutual exclusive, you know, of like well, either if God doesn't do it, it wasn't His will, or if God doesn't do it, you weren't good enough, or if God doesn't do it, you didn't pray hard enough.

When it's not like that, and I think that's risky for people.

Rachel: Yeah, for sure. Well, so now we're gonna talk about why the new story is true. So the new story is you can count on God showing up for you while you pick up your sword and do your part in the battle. So you can wait for God to intervene while you take action. And yeah, it is good to pray and rely on God. Like, both things. It's good to pray and rely on God, yet He also calls us to take up his sword. I mean, time and time again, you know, in the Bible, God basically says, "I will deliver this battle to you." And like in the Old Testament, you see battle after battle that go well, and then some that don't go well. And the difference is the obedience that followed. So God said, "I'm gonna deliver these people to you. You know, just do this thing. Here's your instructions," and it's, it's all action. You know, it's like, "Go and surround their camp at night, and, you know, break a bunch of jars."

Or like- "Surround Jerusalem, and, you know then seven days." Like, there's very specific instructions, but there's like, "Hey, I'm gonna deliver you." And when the people did what God said, God delivered. So it's both. It's God's delivering them- 'cause they couldn't have done it on their own. Right? Like, they couldn't have, you know, made the walls of Jerusalem fall on their own, just

Austin: Jericho

Rachel: Just, Jericho. Thank you.

Austin: I knew what you meant.

Rachel: The J.

Austin: Yeah, the J.

Rachel: Just you know, it's there. yeah, they couldn't have done that on their own, but they did it, so they took action. So it's like, it took both. It took God delivering them, but them taking action to be obedient to do what God said to do.

Austin: Yeah. You know, it's, it's amazing when you think about And we're gonna talk more about this in a second, but I just, just kinda highlighting it now. It's amazing when you think about, the thought and desire that you have. Like, let's say that you're praying to God, like, "God, I want my marriage to be better." Where did that desire come from? You know? And so is it possible that that desire is God already getting started? And we'll talk more about that in a second, but I just wanna kinda plant that little seed.

Rachel: Yeah, CCM wouldn't exist without a desire that God placed in our hearts.

Austin: You know, and, I know we talked about this earlier, too, but, you know, God, when we're created in the image of God, that means we're an, an imager of God. We're an image-bearer of God. You know, and so God made us in His likeness. God is a creator, you know? And so, think about creating in the garden. Okay, thinking about, I mean, just the whole creation story. And, and even just understanding the idea of the Trinity. It's like God wants collaboration. God wants participation. God wants to work with us. He wants to create with us. I mean, that, that's what, that's what made all this worth it for Him. You know, if He didn't want love and didn't want to create with His creation, He would not have done it this way. You know? I mean, not only made it possible for us to fall, but we wouldn't have autonomy. We wouldn't have agency. We wouldn't have any type of will. Like- I think God delights in working with us.

God delights in being in us only belonging to Him. I mean, He made that very clear, you know? and so I really do believe that God gets excited by our participation in Him. And I know, but I know He also gets excited on our reliance on Him. And again, the whole point of this is to help Christians understand that it is good to rely It's, it's so good to pray as if you're expecting God to do it. And while you're waiting for God to do it, you also participate. You also pick up your sword. You also, you know, pick up the tools in your toolkit that God has given you, and you get started.

Rachel: Yeah. What you're saying, you know, God wanting that depth and that connection with us participating makes me think of Mark Batterson's book, Whisper where he just talks about how God communicates with us and how it's usually in a still, small voice, in a whisper. And what do you do when someone whispers to you? You

Austin: You lean in

Rachel: You lean in. You lean in so you can hear, and that's what He does. You know, even in this, you know, He wants us to lean in. He wants us to draw near, to be close, and to be in participation with Him. It's- And it's so fun. It's fun for us 'cause He created us to like it.

Austin: That's exactly right. And, and again, our goal, I'm just gonna say it again, is to understand there's two powerful forces at play here. And yes, God's force is more powerful than ours, okay? Like, God can do way more than we can do. You know, when He blinks could be our lifetime of effort, okay? But if things are important enough to us, to move forward in life, why wouldn't we wanna use every tool that we have? Why wouldn't we want to both pray, rely on God, be in the word, and also respond and also participate, and also You know, you see the person who's starving, and you pray that God would feed them, and while you're waiting for God to rain manna down from the sky, you go to your, you know, your grocery store and you get a loaf of bread, and you go feed him, you know? And the cool thing is God still gets glory for that because it was a good thought that we won't, we don't naturally think about unless we know the love of God, you know?

And so here's just kind of a fun, really practical example, you know. It's like if someone came into this room right now and tried to hurt you, okay, my first thought would be, "Holy Spirit be with us." It would be, "God be with us." Like, oh my gosh, like, someone's coming in this room. They're trying to hurt Rachel. God be with us, you know? And then the very second thought which would be very simultaneously, instantaneous right after would be, "I'm gonna draw my gun and defend you." Okay? And so there's this like, God, please be with us. Like, you have to be the thing that powers us. Like, you have to be, like, the excellence, the precision, the literal precision in self-defense, but the, the provision, the excellence, all of that, that has to be you. Okay? And as I'm praying that it would be God and that He would come through for us, I'm also going to take the best, most immediate action I have to keep you safe.

Rachel: Yeah, which you've done years and years and years and years of knowledge, prep, preparedness to be that person, to know, like, "Hey, this is God's calling for me to rely on God but also know how to take action

Austin: Yeah, and I would give God credit

Rachel: And be a defender

Austin: Yeah, and I, and I give God credit for that desire He placed in me long ago. Which again, we'll kinda talk about that you know, key thought here in a second. Okay. So I think really one of the most key points we want to get across here, and I w- I know we've kinda hinted at this as we've just been talking, but is just understanding that what if God has already divinely intervened in our, our lives and our hearts just by the thoughts and the desires that He's given us? You know, again, like, this, this mutual exclusive is this extreme, right? Like, it's only God's divine intervention, and there's a different extreme that says, no, it's all action, you know? And, and we're, we're finding this place in the middle which is like we're relying on God, and we're taking action as we are called to do. And I think a big thing that people miss is the idea that if you have a desire to make your marriage better, to be stronger in your faith, to be more healthy, to have better finances, to be more, successful in your career, to be a better husband, father wife, mother, son, daughter, all those different things, where do we think those desires come from?

Like, are they coming from our flesh, or are they coming from the spirit, you know? And so I think I would argue that God has already divinely intervened in your life by making you th even think about wanting to be better. Even making you think to go to God about your struggles, that's a God thing to me. Okay? Like, let's just say that you have a battle that you need fighting, a battle that you need fighting, air quotes, and let's just say that battle is you're struggling with your boss at work. Okay? And you could say, "God, fight that battle for me," and at the same time, you're gonna learn how to be a better employee, learn how, how to be a better manager, learn how to be better at interpersonal conflict, all those things. Like, so you're, you're doing your best to prepare yourself. You're waiting on God. But what's really cool is God gave you the thought. I'm gonna argue that more than likely God gave you the thought to bring that to Him in the first place.

So I'm gonna argue that God already divinely intervened in your heart by going to Him in prayer about something that's really important to you.

Rachel: Yeah, because James 1:17 says, "Every good and perfect gift is from above." Every good perfect gift. Which is awesome, you know? Same thing, it's like that and then scripture saying God is love is like, ah, well, every act of love, every good thing, it's all God. Like, He gets the credit no matter what.

Austin: Yeah. So think about this, so it's like we have a battle, and God convicts our consciousness to bring it to Him. Okay? So God already divinely intervened, and we've already responded. Okay? That's

Rachel: So he's like

Austin: That's kind of the grand point of this episode I want people to understand is that we can prove to you that it works this way because it already works this way, okay? God convicted you, okay? The Holy Spirit convicted you. That was His divine intervention. Like, He gave you the thought, like, "Man, I should bring this to God." Okay? Or, "I, I, I really want to work more on my marriage. I really wanna get healthier. I really wanna get more successful in my career. I really want to be a better father. I really wanna be a better s-," fill in the blank. So the Holy Spirit convicted you of that desire. You then brought that desire to God, which is you taking action. Okay? That's a form of you taking action by praying that God would do something about it. So then the Holy Spirit's like, "Awesome. Let's take this to the next level." So we go to the, to go to God. We make our request, and as God is working on it, what's the next level of participation we can bring ourselves to?

Okay? Again, if it's- "God, please make me healthy," well, then I know that while I'm waiting for God to make me healthy I can cut s- I can cut sugar out of my life. Okay? And while I'm waiting for God to help me get healthy, I can go for a run every day. Okay? While I'm waiting for God to make me healthy, I can do all these different things. And so God's divinity and our participation, they come together, and out of all the people we've worked with and even just from our own lives for a long, long time, I've met a lot of people in every camp, okay, along the spectrum of this mutual exclusive. And it's been our experience and the experience of many, many, many, many, many that we've helped that when we rely on God and we participate, the most amount of good happens. I've seen people that only wait on God, and I've seen people that only try to take action.

And the people that only try to wait on God, they never do anything. And the people that only take action, they spin in circles. They chase their tails. But there's this place in the middle where it's like this divinely guided and inspired action.

Rachel: Oh, it's like being a conscious Christian.

Austin: Yes. Oh, man. It's like we landed that way.

Rachel: Handshake, handshake.

Austin: Handshake. Oh, that feels so good. And your hands are cold. You cold?

Rachel: I'm cold.

Austin: You're cold? Mine kinda warm. So that kinda brings us to one of our key scriptures for today, maybe the most key scripture. Rachel, do you wanna read it?

Rachel: I do, and this one comes from James, which we love. It's my husband's middle name.

Austin: Woo.

Rachel: And our son's middle name.

Austin: It's my dad's, my dad's name. Yep, my son's middle name.

Rachel: Yep, it's a good I just love the Book of James. So we're in 2:14-17. "What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, 'Go in peace. Keep warm and well fed,' but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself is not accompanied " Oh, "If it

Austin: Is not

Rachel: Is not accompanied by action, is dead." So this is, like, the famous face with, faith without works scripture. but it's really applicable in what we're talking about today. he may be talking about, salvation, but he says this when he talks about, "If one of you says to them, 'Go in peace. Keep warm and well fed,' but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?"

Austin: Yeah, what is it? And, and

Rachel: It's like saying, "Oh," like, "God, help this person," or, or, "God, solve the problem of sex trafficking." Like, this is a major problem. Like, solve it, God. Like, heal it. Rescue people. While we can actually be taking action, we can be helping and, you know, donating to Our Rescue nonprofit. Shout-out. And different things like that.

Austin: Yeah. Well, and, and I like that he just mentioned, you know, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds, what does he really mean there? You know? And again, this could be You could call this kind of this theological discussion here, mixing in salvation and stuff, too, but if someone claims to have faith but no deeds, it's like my faith is I have faith in God that He will do all things that need to be done, or, you know- He'll, He'll make all paths straight and all ways, you know. And so but if all I do is think, "Okay, I, my faith needs application, and, the application of my faith is deeds," you know. And so what good is it if someone has faith, okay, like, "Okay, God will take care," 'cause i- He has an example here. So he talks about faith and deeds, and then he gives a really specific example. Okay? So my inclination is to believe that this example is predicated by, okay, "What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but no deeds?

Can such faith save them?" Okay? And then it talks about if someone needs food and we do nothing about it, okay? We want to have faith that God will act, that God will be divine, that God will, in His sovereignty, make all things good and all things new. And while we're waiting on God to do that and to work in His mysterious ways that we'll never be able to find necessarily a rhythm for, you know, or a, a rhyme or reason other than to glorify Himself, then we get started, okay? because if we say to someone, "Go in peace. You'll be fine. Be warm," but we do nothing, then we, we literally did nothing, okay? The point is that God wants us to act. God wants us to participate. And if we claim to have faith, but we have no deeds that align with our faith, then what's the point? And, and, and how is that real faith? I think that's what, you know, he's trying to get across here.

Rachel: All right, so this scripture leads us into our nonprofit shout-out really well. Operation Underground Railroad. It is ourrescue.org which we will share the link in this podcast description. you know, we are so passionate about helping those who can't help themselves. sex trafficking is a major, evil in the world today, and thousands, hundreds of thousands of women and children every single day are being exploited and need our help. And so this is a practical way. You know, you could be praying for God to move in the world and this is how you can be his hands and feet. Because there are people who are trained, who have created resources, who are doing the action, but they need funding. And so you from, you know, your, your car, once you're parked, you can donate. From your work, from your home, from your bed, wherever you are, you can donate $5, 50, you know. You know the drill. 5,000. Whatever you wanna give, whatever you feel led to give, but if it's just $5, give $5.

Don't say, "Ah, it's just $5. I'm not gonna spend the five minutes to do that." Do it. Take a minute. Go and donate to them today, because this is a great way for you to really be obedient to what God calls you to do and to be Jesus's hands and feet in the world today.

Austin: Yeah. Yeah, that's right. It's, yeah, ourrescue.org. They're one of our favorite nonprofits. And and really, they are I mean, any of our nonprofits could work for this episode. But but it's so true. It's like while we're waiting, we're praying, "God, we need you to go fight the battle of human trafficking," because it's so big. It's so daunting. Like, we, we cannot beat it without you. And while we're waiting for God to go and, in His mercy, end this battle, we're gonna pick up our sword and fight. And maybe the way for us to best pick up our sword and fight is to just donate. So we really encourage you guys, pause this episode. Head over to Our Rescue. Like Rachel said donate a few dollars or a lot of dollars, whatever you're feeling convicted to, because that is a way you can participate, and it really is the point of this episode. And again, the point of the episode is not to say that we shouldn't rely on God, because we should.

It's why we're doing that. While we're praying and relying that God would go do these things on our behalf, we will participate. Okay? And we will in our works, in our best effort, in our best action in our best response, in our best participation, we will work towards the very things that we're praying for. And I know we've, we have quoted St. Augustine before but it's just, it's just really a, a key scripture that we live our lives by, which is, "Pray as it depends on God and work like it depends on you." You know? And it was prophetic then, a long time ago, and it is now, especially the world we live in now, where, you know, p it's so easy for people to wanna feel like they're, you know, outta control or they can't effect change. but really they can, you know? And so those of us who can effect a lot of change and do have a lot of control and resources, it is our duty and our responsibility to help those who actually can't.

And that's an another reason why we love supporting, Operation Underground Railroad. And so shout out to the whole team there. we appreciate you. And, yeah, so rrescue.org. So, all right, Rachel. You have a great kinda big action item for people to, to do today. What's that?

Rachel: So no matter where you were walking into this episode on mutual exclusives and what you believed or how your mindset might be shifted, ask yourself this question: Is there something I've been praying for that God hasn't answered yet? Then ask God, "God, how can I take more action in my faith to partner with you to deliver this situation, this result, or this experience I am having?" So ask God, "How can I take more action in my faith to partner with you to basically get the answer that you're praying for?" And you know, I would encourage you, this might look like asking for help seeking counsel, being honest about your shortcomings and where you need support. it might look like doing the hard work to achieve what's before you or being more self-reflective on how you've created your reality and what needs to change to, to get to that goal, what you need to heal to grow or to change to experience this prayer answered.

Austin: Yeah. That's right. Great action item, Rachel. And, everyone, thank you for watching this episode. we ask that you guys would please like, comment, subscribe, follow us, rate us, all that cool stuff, no matter what platform you're watching or listening on. And by doing that, it helps other couples discover us and what we do and hopefully bring positive change into their marriage, into their home, into their faith. And so, we love and appreciate all of you. Thank you for watching this episode of the Conscious Christian Marriage podcast, and we'll see you on the next one.