Debunking 5 Mutual Exclusives That May Be Limiting Your Faith and Marriage

Transcribed from the episode audio and lightly edited for readability. Speaker labels are automated and may occasionally be off.

Austin: Hey, everyone. Austin and Rachel Holt here, and welcome to the Conscious Christian Marriage Podcast. We're your hosts, and we're very excited that you joined us today for another episode. We're very excited about today's topic because, this is not going to be a one episode topic, is it, Rachel?

Rachel: Mm-mm. No, it is not.

Austin: Yes, so we've actually got several episodes planned, for this topic. And so today we're gonna be going through five different topics with you guys that all kind of center around one core idea, and then we're gonna be having some follow-up episodes to just dive a little bit deeper on all the different things we're gonna be talking about today. We're really, really excited about it. You know, think about it like a sermon series, you know, where you know, we've got a little roadmap, and we're gonna go really deep on these things. But we're excited about today's topic because, it's gonna help you guys just understand a really, really important, idea, concept that we really think will make your life and your marriage a lot better. So but before we dive way into that, we're gonna go into appreciations. So Rachel, I know you wanted to kick us off. I know you said that before we started, so.

Rachel: I appreciate your resourcefulness to, create what you want, and whatever that might be. You create, flows and systems and shortcuts in a good way. So

Austin: Well, thank you

Rachel: I'm appreciating that about you 'cause it's hilarious and smart. So.

Austin: Mm-hmm. Well, Rachel, I'm really appreciating you for remembering to bring me a really nice polo up to the office today, and I appreciate that you then responded really well when I said, "You know what? I just kinda wanna wear my black Lululemon shirt 'cause I love this shirt," and you were like, "Okay, cool. I'm good with that" even though you have a really nice, very nice fancy blouse on. So I just appreciate your details, your, attention to details, and I appreciate your flexibility.

Rachel: I like you living in your essence.

Austin: Thank you. It's good to see you here today.

Rachel: #thehandshake.

Austin: The handshake.

Rachel: Just shaking my hand.

Austin: Oh, I love shaking your hand. It's kinda hot for some reason. I don't know. I'm just into it.

Rachel: Yeah. I mean, who shakes their spouse's hands anymore?

Austin: See, the Yeah.

Rachel: That's like a, "Ooh, nice to meet you."

Austin: I think, I think we talked about that. Yeah, it's like, that is true. Like, when's the last time you just shook your spouse's hand? Anyways, love it. All right. So today, we've got a really, really great topic. I think this is something that really needs to be covered, by Christians for Christians. I think that everything we're gonna talk about here today will help anyone, whether they're a b a believer or not. But specifically for maybe those who, you know, attend church regularly and, those who really want to, just better navigate their faith, better navigate their marriage and just be able to look at things through a lens that just allows for a little bit more, possibility, you know? I think that a lot of things have been taught in the church, outside of the church, just over time. and this is not This, what we're talking about today is not just limited to the church. I mean, it's to any, any platform, any voice, any, any echo chamber, right?

But it's easy to teach things out of fear and to try to box them into, exclusives when they don't necessarily need to be an exclusive, or they're just not exclusive. which brings us to the topic of this training today, this training, this podcast today and the, the subsequent episodes that are gonna come from this, but we're gonna be talking about mutual exclusives. Mutual exclusives.

Rachel: Debunking five mutual exclusives that may be limiting your faith and marriage.

Austin: Ooh.

Rachel: Was that a good, like

Austin: I liked your kinda

Rachel: DJ vibe?

Austin: Kinda, kinda creepy, seductive voice there.

Rachel: No, I wasn't trying to be seductive.

Austin: Oh, okay. Well, it worked. yeah. So

Rachel: Only for you

Austin: That's right. So debunking five mutual exclusives that may be limiting your faith and your marriage. So the first question is, what is a mutual exclusive? So Rachel, what's a mutual exclusive?

Rachel: Well, I'm gonna be honest. When we s when we started this series, I was like, "Okay, babe, explain this to me," and I did the whole Michael Scott thing. I was like, "Explain this to me like I'm a four-year-old." I was like, "I know what mutual exclusives are, but I never use the term mutual exclusives."

Austin: Yeah. Sometimes it's

Rachel: So

Austin: Sometimes it's either/or. But a mutual exclusive is basically two things that can't be true at the same time or two things that can't exist together. Okay? And a lotta times, mutual exclusives are taught because someone doesn't know another perspective that can coexist with it. Or people want to teach things really just out of fear. You know, and just hoping that, well, if I teach it this way and I exclude everything else, people won't push back, and they won't ask questions and they won't wanna know more, you know? And so I, I, I really do believe that sometimes it's, a mutual exclusive is taught because someone does have a negative intention in mind, but I think a lotta times someone has a mutual exclusive because they just don't understand the bigger picture. Just in assuming the best in them. You know? And so we're gonna cover five of these, mutual exclusives because it's important to debunk some of these. And I'm a little playful with the word debunk.

So take that with a little bit of grain of salt. We're not angry or anything like that. but what we want is to help Christians have a deeper understanding, of certain frameworks that will help them grow in their faith and grow in their marriage. And I think sometimes it's important, you know, to take the time to talk about these things because once people do understand that certain things are not mutually exclusive it can really open up their life, you know? Now, some things are mutually exclusive. Like, for example, you cannot be a Christian and a Universalist. Those are mutually exclusive because Christianity says there's only one way to the Father, and it's through Jesus. Okay? And a Universalist would say that all ways lead to God. Now, you can be a Universalist and think you're also a Christian or accept that way because that, that fits, okay? But if you're a Christian, you can't believe in Universalism. Okay? another fun example is, like, science and religion, okay?

A lot of people want to think that science and religion are mutually exclusive. Well, I can be a faithful Christian, and I can believe in science. Now there are certain subsets of science I do not agree with. Okay? So I don't believe that at some point, you know, like, like think about like The Big Bang Theory, right? Like, I no one can explain where the chunk of carbon came from that exploded that, that created the whole universe. Even if I believed that a little chunk of carbon could explode and creates a whole universe, I still believe that God, Yahweh, okay this just almost impossible to understand being because He's always been, He was never created, like I believe He created the universe, you know? And so there's certain subsets of science that I don't agree with or I don't subscribe to, but I can still believe in science. Like, I can still believe in the art of studying the world and the earth and, and, and, and space and time and all those things and still be a really faithful Christian.

Rachel: 'Cause someone might think you can only do one or the other. Either or. But what we're here to say is, actually, they exist together, and that's God's design.

Austin: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean

Rachel: Science and Christianity is

Austin: Yeah, I mean, it, it, it was science that helped discover, understand, like the Dead Sea Scrolls to date the Dead Sea Scrolls. Like science helped us do that, right? So science and, and, and Christianity can exist together. They are not mutually exclusive.

Rachel: Correct. Yeah.

Austin: So just helping you all understand what a mutual exclusive is, two things that can't exist or be true together. So when someone says the saying, "Well, something is not mutually exclusive," it means that those things can actually exist together. And so we're gonna just talk about five things that, we believe can exist together, but they historically have been taught that they can't exist together. Sound good?

Rachel: Correct. Sounds great.

Austin: All right, so number one. Why don't you start us off with this one, Rachel?

Rachel: Yeah. The first one we wanted to address is faith in God and going to counseling are mutually exclusive. So maybe how you've heard this is, "You don't need a counselor. You need the great counselor." And Austin here has quoted this multiple times 'cause he's heard it from pastors.

Austin: Mm-hmm. Yeah, multiple times. And it's m it's more like this, "You don't need a counselor. You need the great counselor."

Rachel: Yeah, it's just the woof.

Austin: You know? And then so it, it, it kinda gives this idea of like, well, wait, so you're saying, like, I don't, I, I shouldn't go see a counselor because I have the great counselor already. And those voices would say yes. They'd say, "Well, y you don't need an earthly counselor. You need the heavenly counselor." And it's like, but, but wait, like, I, there's something that is really unsettling about that. And there's a lot of spiritual overriding that happens, you know, in the Church and outside the Church, but a lot of spiritual overriding, where then Christians believe that they're putting their faith into question if they're engaging in any way to get help other than just praying or other than just reading the Bible. And I think this is a really good example of that because how many times have you heard someone say, "Well, you don't need, like, you just need God." Now, that's true and exclusive with certain things. One thing that we've heard from many, many people is that they almost feel guilt or shame going to see a counselor because that must mean, well, if my faith in God was stronger, I wouldn't need to go see a counselor.

When the opposite of that's true. Okay? What's really true is that you can go see a counselor and receive counsel from God at the same time. Because I believe that the, the best counselors we know, okay, and how we counsel couples and individuals, is that we, we go to God for wisdom and, everything that we teach is rooted in scripture. Everything that we teach is rooted in the amazing revelations that God has given people. Right? So when God inspires and equips someone to become a counselor, and that counselor prays every day, "Holy Spirit speak through me, teach through me, reveal through me," and then they go and they help their fellow brother and sister in Christ become more whole experience healing, they point them to God, how does that not align with the Holy Spirit? How does that not align with our faith as Christians?

Rachel: Yeah. The interesting thing is a pastor, in a sense, is counseling people air quotes, from a stage. Now, it's not the same relationship as counseling but the main thing I wanted to say on this is, you know, Jesus left, and He said, "It's better that I leave so that I can give you the Holy Spirit." And, you know, so we have the Bible. That's God's written word, but that was not the last time He spoke. And He still speaks to us every day. And guess who He does it through? Other people. And so, and He can whisper to our hearts and through His word, but He also speaks through other people. And so God can counsel you through a counselor. He can, you know, speak to you through your pastor. And they both kinda do in similar ways. I know your pastor's not, like, sitting with you, but a lot of pastors do. And so if you're a pastor listening to this, by the way, we love you and appreciate you and really are excited about this movement of equipping pastors because pastors have a unique opportunity to counsel people.

And when they get educated in kind of the, the counseling, the, you know, how people think, how God created our brains to operate how He created our emotions and our, our, nervous system to heal, to process trauma that is them equipping themselves

Austin: Oh, just amazing things happen, yeah

Rachel: Yeah, to, to help the Holy Spirit move. So we see it, of course, we're called the Conscious Christian Marriage, so we see it as they both coexist together in a really incredible, really cool way because that's how God moves. That's how we see God move every day in our lives.

Austin: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, well, and different pastors are trained to do different things. You know? It's like you might have a congregational care pastor at your, at your church who is trained to do counseling for people. Okay? and so, you know, this argument is kind of v it's kind of mute from the beginning because it's like, well, like, so what if a pastor is pastoring you through something? You know, is that not the same as counseling someone through something? And again, pastors aren't necessarily trained counselors, and that is different, you know? And, and so we've done a lot of work to help other pastors have counseling skillsets. so it's

Rachel: Which is what I'm, yeah kinda getting at.

Austin: Yeah, which so it is different. But, if you say to someone, "Well, you know, you don't need a counselor. You need the great counselor," are you saying that a a coffee with their pastor where their pastor is helping guide them, encourage them, ask them the right questions, help them introspect and reflect, help them find the word, is somehow negating or excluding them to be able to go to God. All it does is help. All it does You know. And so, you know, anyone who's listening to this episode today, if you've ever thought about going to counseling or therapy or receiving coaching, you know, we believe that that is one of the most powerful things you can do because God has equipped and inspired certain men and women on this earth to be excellent counselors, so that you can gain additional insights about God from other people. And in certain relationships is how you will change the way you relate to something. I can think about some of like, when when, when we're counseling people every week, it's like I, I can just think of so many conversations with people where they're like, "Man," like, "I've heard that preached 1,000 times," or, "I've read that scripture 1,000 times, but the way you said it and the way you explained it, I really felt God move on my heart."

You know? And I really felt like God kind of shifted something in me, you know? And so anytime we're adding in additional angles and perspectives on God, that's gonna be helpful for us to understand God, to relate to God, to love God, to pursue God, to know God. So we believe that our faith in God and going to counseling are not mutually exclusive. You know? And, and we really encourage you, to watch for the episode where we're gonna really deep dive, this topic. So. yeah, so let's move on to the second one. So our second one is that our effort and God's divine intervention are mutually exclusive. Okay? And one ma one way that you've maybe heard this is, "You don't need to be concerned or worried. You don't need to do anything. God will fight all your battles for you." The new story, okay, the more, the, non-mutually exclusive way is that you can count on God showing up for you while you pick up your sword and do your part in your battle.

You know?

Rachel: Yeah. This, this makes me think of so many Old Testament moments where God, you know, God came through or they prayed but then we, you know, we say, "Pray like it depends on God, but work like it depends on you." I know somebody else said that.

Austin: St. Augustine. Yes.

Rachel: St. Augustine. Yes. Thank you.

Austin: Where my name comes from.

Austin: Augustine.

Rachel: And that's like a foundational, thing here at The Conscious Christian Marriage. And you look at the Old Testament, and they would pray, but then they would still go to battle. They would pray for God to win the battle for them. And I know modern day, this is a different, like, battle, air quotes you know, but God is still calling us to do, you know? And a lot of times, God, if they didn't go to battle or they weren't faithful to do what God had instructed them to do they would lose the battle. God would not favor them. for example, super cool story, where Moses, the Israelites were fighting against the Amalekites. And God said, And I Don't quote me on this. You can go look it up. I wish I would've had the reference ahead of time. But, he said, "Raise your hands," you know, in worship, basically, in worship of God, "and when your hands are up the Israelites will win. And when your hands are down, you know, they'll lose."

And so Moses literally was, like, holding his hands up from, like, dawn to dusk like, all day long. I think of that when I'm worshiping. I'm like

Austin: And he even had other people come to help him, to hold his arms up. Yeah, Aaron and Yeah.

Rachel: Other people were holding his arms up because if he would put his arms down, they, they would literally start losing. And so that's a really cool mental picture for me. One, when I'm worshiping, I'm like, " Moses did this all day." Like, I I don't need to put my arms down. Like, I love God. I'm just gonna keep worshiping. But, you know, it's a good, analogy for us to think about is, you know, when we show up and we do our part, and we you know, God doesn't say, "Well, I'm just gonna do it all for you." He says it's this amazing thing where when we show up and we have obedience and we do the work that's when God delivers us through our battles.

Austin: Well, yeah. E exactly. And think about all of Jesus' time with the disciples. think about even Paul's journey, his missionary journey, writing letters all throughout the New Testament. you know, there, if, if it was true that God did everything and fought all the battles, then we would just sit still and do nothing. You know, and, like, speaking of that scripture, people wanna say, "Well, just be still and know that He is God and do nothing." Well, there's seasons where maybe you're, you're stressed, you're anxious you're in turmoil. You're, you feel beaten down. Like, God might be reaching out to you and saying, "Hey, my child, just be still for a moment. Be still." "Know that I am your God. Know that I love you. Know that I'm never gonna forsake you." He's not saying, "Well, be still the rest of your life," you know, "and, and just wait on me," you know? because a again, look at Jesus and the disciples' ministry. Look at Paul's ministry.

It was all about responding to the Holy Spirit and doing the work God calls us to do. So we believe that while you can count on God to show up Okay, it's just like when it's just like when we're praying that God would heal someone. It's the same thing. You know? It's like, "Okay, God, I'm counting on you healing this person." Okay? "And I'm counting on you just divinely healing them, but we're gonna do everything we can to help this person get healed." "Just right here, right now." Whether that's through prayer, whether, what whatever that looks like. But God, like, everyone listening to this episode, you can expect God to fight your battles for you. You can expect Him to conquer the mountains. You, 'cause c- 'cause without even snapping His fingers, He can change anything in your life. Sometimes He does that, okay? And there are spiritual battles. There's probably battles God's fighting for you you don't even know about, okay? It's like yesterday when Charisse and I were coming home from church, my, our oldest daughter, we hit every single red light.

Every red light on the way home. Like, and there's a lot 'cause we live a lot, you know, 25 minutes from church. And I told Charisse, I said, "You know, honey, maybe God is keeping us from getting in a car wreck. You know, maybe God is preventing, you know, something really bad happening by making us this late." "I'm just gonna trust that God's got our back," okay? But you can trust that God is showing up for you, He's defending you, He's fighting battles for you while you do your part and while you give effort. 'Cause a lot of people think that our effort and waiting on God is somehow mutually exclusive. They benefit each other. They supplement each other. Sure, God can do way more than we can do. But that doesn't mean that our effort is in vain. And scripture actually says our effort is not in vain. And if we're gonna do everything as if we do it unto the Lord, then we're gonna give our all.

So how cool is that, that we can co-create with God we can give our all, and count on God doing the miraculous? 'Cause we've known a lot of people. We've been in ministry for a lot of years. I've never seen a more powerful combo than when people are fully reliant on God, but then they're also fully responsive. Okay? And when they're listening for the Holy Spirit to know what to do, when to do it, how to do it, and, and with who. And when we are in tune with the Holy Spirit, usually that's when the conviction comes. It's like, "Hey," like, "I know you've been praying about this, you know, broken relationship over here. But this little stirring that I'm putting in your heart, I want you to go to them, I want you to talk to them, I want you to go pray with them." "I want you to go confess to them." And when we respond to that, we are at work in what we are praying for.

And there are some things that only God can do, and I get that. But for everything else, okay, our effort and God's divine intervention are not mutually exclusive. We are called to participate.

Rachel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It makes me think about, my journey with my concussion. happened when I was in high school. Kind of re-triggered it in college soccer as well. but I was doing better, and I really, truly believe that God healed me last summer. so I had zero concussion, signs, symptoms, any of that for like six months, and then Malachi, sweet son, slammed a door on me. Didn't know I was gonna bend over. It was bad timing. And then all that came back. But we're we did all the supplements, the acupuncture everything, but, you better believe I'm praying for it. People have prayed over me. you know, you even bought, like, a hydrogen water thing. Like, Austin here is amazing. He's like, "Babe, I will go to Japan. I will do whatever it takes."

Austin: To solve this problem.

Rachel: If there's a solution in Japan

Austin: While, while we wait

Rachel: We'll find it

Austin: On God to divinely heal you while we wait for him to fight these battles for us we, we'll do everything we can

Rachel: While believing that he can, but, like, we're still gonna do everything we can. So it just made me think about that. And yeah.

Austin: Yeah. Well, again, a

Rachel: Secret appreciation of you there

Austin: Yeah, thank you. Well, again, a lot of times that advice is given purely out of fear, okay? Because a lot of times from the pulpit, that message is preached, because people don't want other Christians' faith to be tested. And so it's like, "Hey," like, "God's gonna do it all for you." Because sometimes when we give our effort and things, and we pray and things don't go the way that we want them to go, then we start questioning God. So then all of a sudden it's like, well, it's all only up to God, which kind of helps absolve some of our own guilt or some of our own lack of faith if things don't happen the way that we want them to happen. and so sometimes it's easier to tell someone, "Well, you can't affect any change, so you just have to wait, and you just have to trust that whatever happening is supposed to be happening," okay? But, like, if there's someone over there 50 feet from you starving, and, like, you're praying, "God, go feed that person," but you've got 50 bucks in your pocket, and there's a, a, a grocery store right there and you could just go buy the bread and go give it to them, okay?

Then you're ignoring a huge opportunity to partner with God. Okay? And, and I know there's some extremes to, you know, to these examples, but at the end of the day, we've got to understand that our effort and God's divine intervention are not mutually exclusive. Okay? He calls us to rely on him, and he calls us to act.

Rachel: Yeah. Faith without works is dead. All right. So number three is you cannot love someone and set a boundary at the same time. Like, a lot of people think, well, isn't that mean to do that? So maybe how you've heard it is if you set boundaries with someone, it means you're not loving them without condition. So what's the new story, Austin?

Austin: Yeah. Well, so the new story is that you can love someone and set boundaries with them that honor them and honor you. 'Cause here's the thing. At the end of the day, if you really wanna get down to brass tacks about what it means to love someone, teaching them a false way into love is only hurting them. Okay, so if you teach someone that it's okay to abuse someone and, and not ever set a boundary, you're actually teaching them that they should go do that for themselves. Like, if you're allowing them to do that to you you're telling them that's the way to get to love. That's a false way to get to love. That's like telling someone they could eat, you know, five cakes a day and lose weight. Okay? Just to, what, not upset them, not hurt them? Oh, yeah, like you can Y yeah, totally. Eat five cakes a day. You'll get healthy. But you know they won't. So if someone is abusing someone or abusing you spiritually, emotionally, physically, et cetera, and you don't set a boundary with them, you're teaching them that that model works, okay?

So if you really wanna get down to it, if you teach people a way that is false and then they go do those false things and get false results, then do you have any responsibility in the matter? I would say probably. Real love actually establishes boundaries. In fact, even Jesus set boundaries with his disciples. What did he say to Peter when Peter was not believing?

Rachel: "Get behind me, Satan."

Austin: Yeah, he said, "Get behind me, Satan." So it's like, you know, so even in that moment, like, where you know that Jesus loved Peter loved him like a, like a brother or a son

Rachel: And never sinned by the way. I wasn't sinning.

Austin: Yeah, exactly. And he said, "Get behind me, Satan." It's like, whoa, okay. Whoa. Shoot. Okay, okay. My bad. My bad. It's like Jesus set a little boundary there. Like, he drew a little line. Like, no, no, no, you're not gonna say those things. Like, you're not going to, to go against, you know, what I'm saying in that way. And so just like in relationships, setting a boundary is important because we all believe in unconditional love, right? Well, what about unconditional love for ourself? So are we not mistraining people by letting them mistreat us? If we allow them to mistreat us, then we're loving ourself with condition. Well, I'll love and protect myself, but I'll also let them hurt me. I'm gonna go and let them hurt me, okay? Like, there's, there's a couple conditions, okay? If I'm going to accept and receive God's perfect love for me, his unconditional love for me, and then I let someone else hurt me for the sake of what? trying to help them, trying to hero them, trying to fix them then what I'm doing is I'm saying, "I'm not going to unconditionally love myself because I'm going to let this person harm me in this way."

Rachel: And the best way to love other people, you know, s we refer to love sometimes as letting others voluntarily evolve, which means you're not responsible for their actions but you're responsible for what you allow in, in your life. And so sometimes, honestly, the best way to love someone is being an example of what good, healthy self-care is, which is you cannot treat me that way, and I'm sad for you that you're treating yourself so poorly that you think it's okay to do this.

Austin: Yeah, like, "I'm going to forgive you," you know for a transgression, but I may not forget the transgression so that I can create a better opportunity for us to connect in the future. For example, you let your friend in your bedroom. They steal your wallet, okay? Well, you can love and forgive your friend for stealing your wallet, but you don't have to let them back in your bedroom again. Okay, because if you do, okay, you might be actually l without that person's full repentance and healing and, you know going through their 20-step program on how to not be a, you know, a kleptomaniac, whatever. by not doing that, you're teaching them, "Hey, that behavior is okay, and it will get you more love." But if we train people that that kind of behavior, that kind of abuse gets them more love, that's false. That's not what we teach. Okay? because we believe in loving other people well. that means setting boundaries, okay? Loving people with the love of God means, that we accept what is good, okay, and we rebuke what is not.

Okay? Because if you look at Paul's letters, look at what Jesus, look at what the whole Bible says you know, is helping hone in what is good and rebuking what is not. And so when someone harms you, okay, a a and again, we could just, we'll deep dive this on the episode, okay? Because I, because I believe that if someone attacks you and you turn the other cheek and you refuse to accept their attack as a attack a and as a cry for love, you have an opportunity to give grace there. But if someone's in a relationship with you and they are harming you you have the right to say, "Hey, like, I'm, I rebuke that behavior, and that, I don't allow that behavior in, directed towards me." And so we change the container of the relationship to reflect fostering love at a deeper level. But a lot of times people are guilted, out of setting boundaries because, because by setting a boundary, they're somehow the bad guy.

Okay? When all reality okay, they are exercising unconditional love with themselves, and they're teaching the other person what will actually produce better relationships going forward. Because what we tolerate, we're approving. So as Christians, we cannot tolerate certain behaviors because we're training them to keep doing it, okay? If every single day I was mean to you and nothing ever changed, you're teaching me that's okay. But if one day you say, "Austin, I don't like the way that you raise your voice at me," okay, "I'm a, I'm a ch- I'm a child of God. I'm a daughter of God. I would like to be spoken to like a beautiful, delicate flower." Okay? And you set that boundary with me, like, "Hey, like, if you speak to me that way, like, I'm not going to participate in a conversation like that, because it's not loving. It's not Christ-like," okay, that's teaching me, oh, okay, well, shoot, like, that strategy does not work. If I wanna be intimate or close with you, that strategy does not work.

But integrity and telling the truth and honoring each other, that strategy works. So just like we're parenting kids, we have to use that as a way to teach.

Rachel: Yeah. And I'm looking forward to this episode 'cause we have a lot of experience with it and a lot of years of going through it to speak from, so.

Austin: All right, well, let's hop onto the next one. So the next one is that emotions and feelings/desires and God speaking to us are mutually exclusive.

Rachel: Can't exist.

Austin: Yeah, they can't exist together. And you may have heard it like this. You know, "Don't listen to your emotions or your feelings. Just listen to the Holy Spirit." And sometimes that's like, oh, your emotions are deceiving you. Your feelings are deceiving you. Your desires are deceiving you, which I'm gonna clear up the, what those things are here in a second. But too many times we hear, "Don't listen to those things. Just listen to God."

Rachel: Mm-hmm. Yeah, here's the thing. God designed your body. He didn't design your brain and your body to work against itself and to be in constant battle and turmoil, for you to not even have, clarity and, you know, nod to our anxiety episode. you know, the more that you learn to be aware of what you're feeling, what you're thinking and processing and you're able to notice that, articulate that, and get curious about it and figure out- "Hm, what's going on here?" Or, you know, the unoffendable episode where we talk about, you know, someone says something to you, and if you have a feeling, getting curious about that. Like, "Hm, why do I have a landmine there? And, and what needs to be healed?" And so God designed your body, you know, pain makes us pay attention. Emotion makes you pay attention. And a lot of us have been taught to override emotion or that emotions are bad. And you'll define a little bit of that, but, you know, we've been taught that that's, that's not good, and, you know, heart, the heart's deceitful above all things, but

Austin: We've just taught that they can't exist together.

Rachel: Yeah, but when all reality, God uses our emotions to speak to us. Like, the Holy Spirit

Austin: Oh, all the time

Rachel: Moves through our body every single day, you know? If I

Austin: I mean, why, why, why do people think worship is so powerful?

Rachel: Hm.

Austin: Because it's emotion and intensity. Like, how many other times in your day are you lifting your hands in the air s at, ski singing at the top of your lungs? Like, the reason why we can meet the Holy Spirit there is because we're overwhelmed with such intense emotion of love for God that all of our barriers come down. Okay, so the, the new story on this is that God speaks, like you said, through our emotions and our desires and the Holy Spirit at the same time. Okay? God can speak through the Holy Spirit and speak through your emotions. Okay? And just clearing something up, emotions, feelings, desires, this is something that's mixed up all the time. There's only five emotions, happy, sad, angry, sexual, fearful, and of those five, there's, like, 10 degrees, like sub-emotions. And there's also combo emotions, too, okay? An emotion is, "I'm sad." If someone says, "I feel like cheating on my spouse," that's not an emotion. That's actually a desire that's actually coming from a good place in you, but it's manifesting in a negative way.

If someone says, "I feel like cheating on my spouse," what they're actually saying is, "I'm feeling low on love, empty on love, empty on connection, intim i empty on intimacy, and therefore, it's manifesting into this thought of wanting to go cheat on my spouse."

Rachel: That's what we know they're saying

Austin: Yeah, they,

Rachel: But they not, might not be aware

Austin: They, they may not know they're saying that, but we know that. So even negative desire actually comes from the same basic human needs, love, safe, secure, fed, clothed, protected, worthy, all those things. Those are all of our

Rachel: Attention, yeah

Austin: Yeah, all, those are all of our basic things, needs. And so when someone says, like, "Oh, I feel like cheating on my spouse," that's not an emotion. That's not a feeling. That's actually a desire that's manifested itself in a negative way. Okay? If you feel sad, and you go to God and say, "God, I feel sad. My, my chest hurts. I, I, I, I'm, I'm just, I'm sorrowful. I, I feel, I feel sad. I feel confused. I, I, I just, God, like, where are you, like, in my sadness," that's you taking your sadness to God, and you're creating intimacy with God. Sometimes you don't know what to pray for if you have no idea what's going on inside. Okay? God will speak through you. If you feel really angry, and you go, "God, why am I angry right now?" In that question is so much power. "God, why am I angry right now? God, why am I angry right now? God, why am I sad right now?"

"Why am I feeling sadness? Like, wh wh why is my nervous system emitting sadness right now?" And when, 'cause God already knows that, but when you take that to God, you create more relationship and intimacy with God, by doing that. And so, again, then desires, any negative desire is coming from a good place in you, but it doesn't know how to ask for what it wants. It doesn't know how to create the connection that it wants, so it comes out in a negative way, okay? Because the negative way will get the attention the quickest. If a man calls me and says, "Hey, I'm thinking about cheating on my wife," his subconscious knows, all red alert. We're, we're gonna be Starship Captain, red alert, full systems, like, okay, something's up. I've had pastors call me and say, "Hey, I've like, I, I've felt like ending my life lately." Okay? We've had other Christians, just other couples say that to me, say that to us. And so I know that they may not be, that may not be the actual desire, but it's the only way to get the intensity of that desire across, which is I'm desiring rest.

I'm desiring peace. I'm desiring better relationship. I'm desiring happiness. I'm desiring joy. Okay? It's, but don't get emotions and feelings confused, okay? So the negative desire is tricking you, okay? You probably don't want to have an affair with your spouse. You probably just want to, like, create more intimacy with your spouse, or you don't have any creativity in your marriage or, or you're feeling disconnected, okay? But your emotions, happy, sad, angry, sexual, fearful, that's the way God wired your brain, and when you're feeling those things, that's an opportunity for God to speak through you. Through any emotion, God can speak through to you. So, that's gonna be a big one, and I really can't wait to, to deep dive that. But you guys

Rachel: I'm excited about that

Austin: Need to know that, your emotions are not deceiving you, okay? You can feel happy. You can feel sad. You can feel angry. You can feel scared, and God can speak to you through that. If you lie to yourself, if you know you're scared, and you're like, "Yeah, I'm, I'm not scared. I'm not scared. I'm not scared," that's anxiety. Okay? That's what that is, okay? One of our mottos here at CCM is to be self-controlled but spirit-led. It's to not emotionally override the spirit but not spiritually override our emotions.

Rachel: Mm-hmm. And I think this whole subject, if, if you're struggling with it, you just don't have the skills yet. And I think

Austin: That's all it is.

Rachel: Yeah, I, and that's what we're about here

Austin: Yeah, we got those

Rachel: Is equipping you with the skills to be able to notice your emotions and know what to do with them. Because they're there. God designed you to have emotions, and they're there. They serve a purpose. But this generation and a lot of generations before were not taught to know what to do with them, so.

Austin: Yeah, very good. All right, well, let's go to the fifth and final one.

Rachel: All right. You can't be focused on yourself and be a Christian.

Austin: Yes. Another, another way someone's probably heard that is, you need to be more self-less and God-full.

Rachel: They're like, "Ooh, this is a good graphic." "Let's do this."

Austin: This is a great graphic. Yeah, it's a great meme. you don't need to know more about yourself. You need to know more about God. Guys, you need both of those things. You need both. You need to know yourself, and you need to know God. Okay? The new story is the more I become self-aware and self-control, the more I can be led by the Spirit. People, do you know what keeps you from being led by the Spirit?

Rachel: You.

Austin: It's 'cause you don't know you. You don't know your problems. You don't know your guilt, your triggers, your shame, your trauma, your, the stories you tell yourself about God and the church and your faith and the Bible. When you don't know any of that, there's a block between you and God, and you're like, "I don't know why, I just don't know why I can't be led by God." It's like, "Well, do you know anything about yourself?" "No, and that can't be the reason." Like, what? I mean, think about the countless conversations we've had with people where they're like, "I just have this block with God." "Well, do you know what the block is?" "No." "Have you ever tried to look within and find the block so that God can heal you from it?" "No, that would be sinful." And I'm like, "Okay." You can know yourself. You can desire to know yourself better and to know God better. The good news is God already defines all the fundamental truths about who we are.

So we know those things. We can find that in scripture. But from there, the nuance, kind of the, the soup of our childhood, our development, our conditioning, the parents we grew up with, the siblings we grew up with, all those things, kind of makes the unique flavor that all of us are. But once we understand more about ourself, then we can figure out what's getting in the way between us and God. Then we can be more connected to the Holy Spirit, and then the Holy Spirit can, can, reveal deeper things in us that are keeping us from being connected. It's, it's like a, it's like an egg, chicken, chicken, egg thing. We just gotta do both. The more you know about you, the more self-controlled you can be. Think about the fruits of the spirit. Okay? The more self-controlled you can be. And then when we're self-controlled, and we can keep removing the layers of junk and praying that God would remove the layers of stuff, we can be more connected to the Spirit of God.

You know?

Rachel: I think I said this in one of our first episodes, was, you know, it's like being blind or being in a dark room, and you're just kinda like, "Oh," you know? Like walking around and bull in a china closet. If you are s completely unaware of, you know, things that are calling the shots subconsciously and you don't take a moment to get curious about what's going on for you, you're just gonna you probably have some painful drama in relationships that you might be causing. Because

Austin: You just don't know. You're not

Rachel: It's inevitable

Austin: You're not conscious. And that's really at the heart of The Conscious Christian Marriage. Is understanding our heart, mind, soul, and strength, and how we can be a deeply committed, Biblical Christian, and how we can also understand the mind God gave us, the heart God gave us, the soul God gave us, the me'od God gave us. Okay? that's a really cool part of that scripture. And when we understand those things, we can be more obedient, more disciplined, more committed, more dedicated, more all in. Conscious just means I'm aware, I'm mindful, I'm present, okay? I, I, I, I know the planks in my eye, so I can stop calling out the s the, the speck in other people's eyes. So that, that episode's gonna be a lot of fun, too. So we're gonna go ahead and pause, and go into our nonprofit shout-out. So today's nonprofit shout-out is the Tim Tebow Foundation, okay? we're gonna put a link, in the episode to this. In the URL, it kinda reveals what Tim Tebow does and why we love his organization.

Tim Tebow is all about anti-human trafficking. they do lots of other things besides that, but at the core of what they're doing, they're helping get rid of human trafficking all across the globe. So if you, if you find any value in this episode or any of our other episodes, please take a minute, go to the link in the description, give a few dollars to the Tim Tebow Foundation, because they are really doing God's work. Big shout-out to Tim.

Rachel: Yeah, making a huge difference.

Austin: Yep. So take a moment. go bless that organization, because you can literally change lives all around the world by even giving a dollar, to an organization like this. So check it out, timtebowfoundation.org.

Rachel: All right. And if you're on YouTube or somewhere you can comment on this episode, please comment which mutual exclusive you are most excited to hear about.

Austin: Ooh.

Rachel: Or any of your thoughts on everything we've shared so far. We love hearing from you, so don't hesitate to reach out to us anytime. We'll see you next time.