Is This Podcast for You? A Look Into the Conscious Christian Marriage

Transcribed from the episode audio and lightly edited for readability. Speaker labels are automated and may occasionally be off.

Austin: Hey, everybody. Austin and Rachel Holt here, and welcome to the Conscious Christian Marriage Podcast. We're very excited because today is our very first episode. We're super glad that you guys have joined us, and, we're excited to give you a little snippet into what this podcast is gonna be about how we can journey together through it, how we can level up our marriages and all other sorts of things together, as Christians, as just driven, growth-minded people. And so, we're excited you've joined us, and, yeah, Rachel, how you feeling?

Rachel: Well, I'm feeling excited, and I echo everything you've said.

Austin: Do you echo the echo of my echo?

Rachel: Yeah. Old YouTube video for reference. yeah, I'm just excited because we're so passionate about helping people. We love people, and the things that we teach others, we have learned ourselves and have benefited us so much that we are so passionate about sharing them with other people.

Austin: We can't help it.

Rachel: We can't help it, yeah. It's so transformational, you can't help not to share it. So that's why I'm excited. Well, there's many reasons I'm excited for this podcast, but that's one of the main reasons, is because of our listener, because of you, the listener. I'm excited to be able to teach you maybe some things you don't know. That's it's a very humbling thing to have the opportunity to do that, so we're excited.

Austin: Yeah. Well, and that makes me just think of the idea that, you know, the more we learn, the more we realize we don't know. You know? It's, it's just that old saying, "The more you know, the more you don't know." And people don't know what they don't know, you know? And so it's, it's my hope, my prayer that people who are watching or listening to this podcast will just pick up a few things, you know? Some nuggets and some takeaways, and then see those little nuggets and takeaways actually make a difference in their marriage, maybe the way they parent if they have kids, maybe in their money and just their legacy, how they carry out their faith. And so we're gonna have a lot of fun together. So, and, and definitely just being transparent with everyone, it's, it's very easy to overthink every bit of this. You know, because we just, we wanna do a good job. You know, we wanna do a good job, for people.

We wanna do a good job for God, you know? And, we want to, we want this to be an effective use of someone's time and investment, to be here. So, so we are thankful you guys are here, and know that you'll give us patience and grace as we just kinda get, get, this message, to you guys. And, you know, taking it from what's been our private practice for so many years now, just kinda out into the, the world a little bit more, and yeah, so welcome, listener. So, all right, so Rachel, first question, first big question, that I think would be helpful maybe to answer for everyone here is, who is this podcast for?

Rachel: This podcast is for the Christian couple who desires the best for their marriage, who knows that God has called them to live an abundant life, to live with excellence, to honor God with their heart, their soul, their mind, and their strength. And they are growth-minded, so they're seeking Okay, it's probably the listener, exactly, because if someone takes the time to listen to a podcast, they're seeking something, right? They know that there's more, and they wanna grow. And so we love growth-minded people because growth-minded people, that is the best quality anyone can have because through it, you can attain any other quality.

Austin: Yeah. Well, and being growth-minded means you're open-minded. That's actually a lot of times what leads people to being open to having a relationship with Christ, you know? So not only is that a, a doorway there, but it's a doorway to marriage. You know, to a better marriage. You know?

Rachel: Yeah. And it's for any level of marriage because even the best, you know, quote, unquote, "the best marriages"- they're made of two humans that are, you know, there's infinite knowledge and infinite opportunities, and we've all had some bumps on the sidewalk or, we've all been traumatized by something in our lives. And it can come out on our spouse. So there's all, there's opportunity for everyone to grow.

Austin: Yeah. And, and it's, as you said, just kinda makes me think about, like, even, like, the events and things that we run where you've got the couple there that's been not even married a year and then the couple that's been married 40 years you know, in the same room, learning, growing, evolving.

Rachel: Yeah, and they're there with the same goal, same purpose, same mindset, same heart. I love it. It's fun.

Austin: Sorry, clear my throat.

Rachel: So

Austin: Cut that out. Yeah. yeah, I, I, I really feel like that couple that's listening today, I, I feel like there's I don't feel like this, like I just, I know this because of how many couples we work with like this. It's just this idea that's like, you know, we want to be excellent, you know, because God calls us to be excellent. He doesn't call us to be perfect, but He calls us to, to strive for excellence, for integrity, you know? And to to do everything that we do as if we're doing it, you know, in service of God. And I think sometimes it's, it can be frustrating for the, the, kinda that average, Christian, you know, to feel conflicted, you know, about like, "Well, hey, like, I'm called to be excellent," but then over here, you know, I'm told that if I'm too excellent or if I really care about my life- I'm all of a sudden self-centered. You know, all of a sudden the self is bad, you know?

Yet, you know, the kinda the capstone of the fruits of the spirit is self-control. So I'm told over here I need to have self-control, but then if I kinda work on myself, I'm told that, like, I'm making myself a god. You know? And so I think that, I think, like, we've been there and, like, have worked through a lot of that, like, in our own faith journey, like just both being raised in the church. And we'll share a little bit more about, like, our story kinda as we go, but, like, just you and I both being kinda raised in the church and just seeing that dichotomy of like, well, you, you, you should be excellent, as if you're doing it for the Lord, but, like, don't be too excellent because then you're prideful, you know, then you're conceited. You know?

Rachel: Or you make, might make so-and-so feel bad about themselves.

Austin: And so I think even going back to in the beginning of our marriage, what we have built today is what we looked for, you know, 12 years ago that we couldn't find. You know, it was just, resources that were, that align with the Christian faith but also did not ignore just the cutting edge, you know, tools that God has equipped people that have developed, you know in the, the counseling, the therapy, the, the different models that we pull from, you know, to help people. And so, you know, I remember kinda what it was like, you know, as we were building our marriage, not really knowing the resources I could trust and look to.

Rachel: Yeah. We have filtered through a lot of stuff, and that's one thing I really appreciate about, I appreciate about your leadership In our marriage and that we've both done together is not throwing the baby out with the bath water. I think that's a really easy thing for Christians to do i on both sides. So reading a book that's, you know, faith-based, that might have some good things, but then some really toxic things that are unhealthy. And just saying, "Oh, well, that person said that bad thing, so I'm not gonna listen to anything that they said." Or on the other side, saying, you know, "Well, here is the things that you could use from the psychology world," but, "Oh, I'm not gonna listen to that 'cause they're not a Christian so I'm not going to respect them or give them, like, my time. I'm not going to, you know, apply their methods because they're not Christian." And so what we have done, and I'm super thankful for this, that you've led us in that, is we've literally gleaned everything from every Well, we're gonna always be gleaning for the rest of our lives.

But we've gleaned for years from both faith-based and psychology. I mean, yeah, we'll talk about that more I'm sure, but we've gleaned so that we can have that for us. And it's been tested through the fire of our own marriage. And, and we're able to help other people and see results in their lives.

Austin: Yeah. Well, on that note, you know, also when I think about, you know, who this is for, it's for that couple that does really care about their marriage. It's for the couple that really cares, that really wants excellence in their marriage because how we do everything is how we do everything, you know? So typically, like, if you're watching this, you're probably someone who, really wants to grow and advance, and evolve in every area of your life. And you're probably wondering why. Like, "Okay, we love each other a lot. We're very committed to each other. Like, we're building an excellent marriage," you might be thinking this, "but why do I still get frustrated? Why, why am I still frustrated with my spouse?" "Why do I still feel some discontentment? Why do I, why do I get so angry?" You know, like and not necessarily knowing, like, do I look in them? Do I look in me? You know, to figure that out, you know? And 99.9% of the time, it's looking at us, you know to figure out what that is.

But, you know, we know what it feels like to love someone so much and then to wonder, like, "Well, why do I still feel this way?" Or, "Why do we still keep having this problem?"

Rachel: Yeah, it's this reoccurring thing. Like, we're great, but this one thing just keeps coming up.

Austin: Yeah. Right. And, and, you know, we always say that, like, you know, you know, we can help any couple through anything, and we've done that. We've helped many couples with, you know, signed divorce papers in hands, you know, turn it around. but we've also helped couples that are really high-level couples that just want it to be better, you know? And that they are not putting a ceiling on what God can do in their marriage and what God can do in their life. And I think there's been a lot of shame around that because it's like that's so inwardly focused somehow. But I think that the couple that's watching this today realizes that their marriage is their first ministry. And that's probably been called into question directly or indirectly you know, whether by their, their parents, their siblings, their friends, their church. You know? Like, how many, how many couples have we worked with that, you know, they over-volunteer to church, they over-served at church, you know?

Or their family's guilted and shamed them for, "Well, you need to hang out with us more over the holidays," or, "You need to be around more," or, "You " But it's like, well, hey, like, this is, like, God made man to leave his family and go be united with his wife. Like, that's what I'm doing. Like, I'm This is the part of the kingdom I'm building. Like our first kingdom responsibility is our marriage. And I think that a lot of couples watching this today have probably felt a little bit of that resistance and like, "Well, hey, like, God called me to go and build this marriage and be with my spouse, yet-" " I'm kinda feeling like, like I'm being guilted for that," you know? And so, we really want that couple that has decided, "Hey, like, even though we have learning opportunities even though we have snags, even though we trip over the sidewalk," you know, as you said earlier, "we love each other.

We're building a great marriage, and we wanna figure out how to get up the mountain faster," you know? And so we help couples really Like, the couple that this is for, I just wanna make sure we answer this question, is, like, they wanna find guardrails, you know? So, like, i if you've ever driven a car up a mountain and there's no guardrails, it's scary. Okay, you have the commitment to get there, and you wanna get there, but you wanna get there fast, you know? And so we help couples get up that mountain of building a great marriage, and we give them guardrails so that if they mess up, the guardrail catches them you know, so they can go quicker. The guardrail catches them and gets them back on track. You know, just today we had a couple tag us on Facebook that was at a church marriage deal that we taught. And one thing they They were just honoring each other for their anniversary, and, and she had mentioned something great.

She was like, "You know, we did this marriage class with Austin and Rachel, and, and we just really learned about agreements and how we create agreements together, how we're gonna handle things as they happen, as they come up, what our protocol is. And because of that, we're able to just get back on track so fast." That's who this is for, okay? This is not for the couple that is kinda like, "Yeah, my mar like on the pri my priority list, my marriage is down here." Like, if that's you you're probably not gonna like what we have to say, okay? Because we're gonna, we're gonna call people to, like, a really high level of excellence and accountability in our work. But if you're the kind of person, if, you have the kind of marriage where you're like, "Hey, I know God has called us to care about this marriage and to, to, grow it to the depths that He calls us to this is gonna be for you. and what we're gonna say is gonna be challenging.

It's gonna be, convicting. we hope, we hope it's like that because anything in life that's worth doing is worth overdoing, okay? That's part of the Navy SEAL frogman's code, you know, is let's overdo it. You know? For, i if we do everything as if we do it unto the Lord, that applies to our marriage, s especially to our marriage which is our first ministry. And if that ministry is not thriving, no other ministry can thrive.

Rachel: Yeah. And here's the thing. Our marriage is not just, like, a thing that's kind of floating out here. It's just two people. So a marriage is made up of two individuals, which is why on this podcast we're excited to talk about personal development in regards to marriage, but what you bring to the table is what gets thrown in the soup that is the marriage. So, yeah, that leads me to my question for you

Austin: Ooh

Rachel: Is what do you think is the biggest thing or obstacle keeping Christian couples from going to the next level or investing in their marriage more?

Austin: Yeah. Great question, and there's a lot we could say here. But I think the biggest thing that I wanna say is there's kind of this American church culture like American church marriage culture out there, that kind of informs this idea that, you know, you have to look like everything's great. And while you're spending all your energy making everything look great, it's actually not great. All the energy goes into perception. All the energy goes into, I think we've said this on, you know, previous videos we've shot in here, you know, the cute, you know, photo shoots and matching outfits at church and, you know, having, you know, the shiny new Yukon pull up in the parking lot. And if you've got all that, then you look like you've got the, the marriage. And so there's so much pride and fear in people knowing that you're working on stuff. Even the highest level couples we know okay, including us, the, the highest level couples we know, they're working on things.

It doesn't mean that necessarily something's broken. It means that they have a desire to heal they have a desire to grow, they have a desire to improve, because that's what God calls us to. But I think the average American couple is faced with this challenge of like you better make it look like everything's good. You better make it look okay, 'cause you might embarrass your family, you might embarrass your church, you might embarrass yourself. But, like, Jesus does not call us to that. Like, he calls us to integrity and he calls us to telling the truth, and he calls us to be, authentic about our experience. And so I think that just the big obstacle, one of the big obstacles, is just this idea that it's like you have to look a certain way. And all the energy people spend in making it look good is

Rachel: It's a lot of energy

Austin: Yeah, it makes it to where they don't have the energy to actually do the work. And it's like we said earlier, it's just this idea that, there's a conflict, there's a wrestling of like do I strive for excellence? Do I strive to have solid integrity? Do I strive, to achieve, you know, a as a believer you know, as God calls me to? I'm not saying God's calling everyone to be millionaires or star athletes or movie stars or anything like that, but telling the truth, walking in integrity, honoring commitments, honoring agreements, setting boundaries that actually matter. Okay? Being in the word every day, working out, okay? Like, having your physique match your insides, okay? The, the internal integrity you have and matching that on the outside, honoring the temple by eating well, okay? a giving great value to the world so that you can thrive in your job. You know it's like these are all attributes of a great Christian, yet there's this tug of war, this wrestling, where it's like, "Well, don't do any of that because you might make someone look bad.

You might make someone feel bad about themselves." And that's self-centered, okay? That's egotistical, okay? If you do not know yourself and if you do not work on yourself, you'll work on yourself through your relationships. And so I think that's this other, this other big thing that, the average Christian couple is against is like we're trying to be excellent like God calls us to, but when we are, there's this guilt, this shame, this, this fear that we're being judged.

Rachel: But here isn't the funny thing, isn't, hmm, isn't it funny how when we do say something like, "Oh," like people who come to some of our marriage retreats, they tell their parents like, "Hey, we're going to this marriage you know, this marriage one day," and they're like, "Oh, do you guys have problems?" And they're like, "No, we don't." "We love each other." "That's why we're going to this marriage conference." And so we wanna change that weird stigma

Austin: Stigma, yeah

Rachel: Around investing in your marriage, because it is, it is what you're saying. You know, couples of excellence invest in their marriage consistently. And it's like God and then your marriage, then everything else. Which our kids are next. God, marriage, kids and then everything else. That includes our career comes second to all that, so.

Austin: Yeah. And I, I, I just think the average Christian has such a hard time balancing that out. And then you know, living in that little space of fear of like, you know, like am I somehow being, you know, disloyal or dishonoring, you know, to my church or to, you know, to God because, like, we're thriving in our marriage together. You know? And so it's like, because a lot of pulpit messaging right now, you know, is this whole thing of like anti-personal, anti-self, anti-personal development and growth where like Jesus was the ultimate man when it came to teaching self-understanding and self-awareness. Now, if you're just, if you're diving into the self for just the sake of, of you and no one else and it comes at the cost of the people around you, that's actually the problem. But no one actually defines the problem. the the people that benefit the most from a healthy you is everyone around you. You know, so when we're

Rachel: The kingdom benefits.

Austin: Yeah, the kingdom. Yeah. And so because he, it's like if You know, this is, you mentioned it earlier, heart, soul, mind, strength. You know, that's a big part of our message here, and what we do is helping people integrate their heart, their soul, their mind, their strength. And, and I think that, if you just think that you have like a perfect faith walk, but yet you break your commitments, you aren't a person of integrity, you don't take care of your health, you don't take care of your relationships, you don't take care of the resources God has given you. I mean, look at the parable of the talents. We are literally called to be good investors of the resources God has given us. And if you're not But it, there's this pressure of like, well, if you're just solid on the spiritual piece, the heart, mind, everything else can just kinda fall by the wayside. But it can't, because we cannot be effective in the kingdom of God if we do not know what's going on in here and we haven't healed it.

'Cause if I don't heal this, I'll heal it through relationships. Okay? Like for example, if, if I do not pay attention to the self, I may not know where I'm insecure. So then I meet someone, okay? And they might say something that I then feel insecure about myself with, and it's gonna change the way I treat them. Okay? I cannot be a good minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ, okay, if I have not found healing and integration in myself. And I think that that's the other thing that, one of the other things that the average Christian couple is against is this idea of like, all you need to do is pray and read your Bible. That's literally it. Everything else will be fine. Yeah, that'll cure your marriage. That'll cure anything. But the divorce rate in the church is still close to 50%. And God's success rate is not 50%. It's 100%. So if the success rate's less than 100%, we're screwing something up.

And I think one of the big things that's being screwed up is the reluctance to take personal responsibility. Okay? We always wanna blame Satan. We always wanna blame a demon.

Rachel: Preach it.

Austin: Yeah, we always wanna blame the demon. that's homage to a really cool speaker.

Rachel: Chad Veach.

Austin: Yeah, there we go. And, you know, we always wanna blame the demon, always wanna blame, you know, Satan. and it's such an interesting proposition that you think that, of all the people in the world that could be being messed with, it's you. but that's the first go-to, right, is, is that, versus looking inward and going, "Huh, maybe I'm actually feeling insecure about myself. Maybe I'm feeling sadness. Maybe I'm feeling fear." "Maybe I'm feeling shame, doubt, guilt, and I'm praying, I'm reading my Bible. I'm, I'm, I'm spending time with, in the church and with mentors, and yet I still feel something here. And I-" "I don't wanna tell anyone because I don't want them to question my faith." Which is the, the other big challenge as to why people don't work on their marriage because they believe, and everyone listen really closely to this 'cause we have this conversation constantly, is a lot of, a lot of Christian couples are scared to ask for help because then maybe their faith would be c put into question.

'Cause we do work for, for pastors and their marriages, okay? And they have admitted to us, it's like, "It's nerve-wracking to admit that we want help because we could be taken away from the pulpit."

Rachel: Right. A lot's at stake

Austin: A lot

Rachel: Which I understand when you're in leadership a lot is at stake.

Austin: But even the Bible prescribes, even, even in Paul's letters describes, like, the qualifications for being leaders, teachers, deacons. You have to be people of excellence. Go read that scripture. Go read the requirements for being in leadership. It's excellence. Yet there's so many Christians who are afraid to just say it, "Hey, I love my spouse," okay? Like, "We have a great marriage, but we want to grow." Like, there's some snags. There's some stuff, okay? 'Cause we've met a lot of, of couples, they're like, "Oh, we're great." 30 minutes into a session or 30 minutes into one of our live trainings or whatever

Rachel: We know.

Austin: Yeah, it's like

Rachel: Well, we know when we see them walk in

Austin: Yeah, you can't

Rachel: The room

Austin: You can't fool a chiropractor. If you got a back problem and you walk past a chiropractor, they're gonna figure it out. Okay? Like, if you're a professional, if you're an expert in this field, you can't spend a lot of time with someone who is, and they don't just figure it out. and that's without judgment. I mean, that's just, there's biological, physiological, autonomical type responses that we watch for. Anyways, digressing there. But just to sum it up, I think Christians feel this, like, fear. And I think it's two parts. It's, "I wanna be excellent, but I don't wanna be judged for it." I think that's a big part of it. And then the sec the second part of it is, "I'm afraid to ask for help because I don't want people to think I lack faith in God that my faith in God is not sincere, that my faith in God is not powerful, that my faith in God is not authentic." Okay, so let me ask you a question.

Rachel: All right.

Austin: Okay? 'Cause we could make this episode, like, five hours long.

Rachel: Yeah, I know. I had so much to say.

Austin: 'cause we're already 21 minutes in which is awesome. Probably like 18 minutes in 'cause we had a couple redos, but anyways. I want you to share with everyone a, just a snapshot of our story. Just from, like hey, like, got married, boom.

Rachel: Ooh, well, I'm gonna go slightly farther back. Both you and I have always been people who desire to learn. I remember super early on I was reading books about purity and marriage and all that, you know, all those back in the day whatever I could get my hands on about, like, saving yourself for marriage and purity and being a wife, you know, of God and after God's heart and, and prayer and all that. Like, I was reading, and I know, like, I read back in the day, we won't talk about this but For Women Only, and you read For Men Only. And I remember even like, not feeling right about that in my spirit. But, like, we both read books like that and have always been seeking that wisdom.

Austin: Quick plug for The Great Sex Rescue. That'll help you understand

Rachel: Ooh

Austin: Our position on many of this. Many of these things.

Rachel: Yes. We love Sheila. And so, when we got married, we, yeah, we continued that, search for the best advice, the best knowledge. we were leading a young adults ministry at the time. We were separately when we were dating, and then we started a ministry together when we were dating and engaged. And then our first Sunday back from our honeymoon, literally, like, our pastor who did our premarital, he left for a job, that was somewhere else, so he didn't end up marrying us. We love him so much, but we were sad he moved. And our first Sunday back from our honeymoon, kid you not, a cult took over our church. That's a whole nother thing. It was, like, we just were discussing this recently. We're like, "That was actually traumatic."

Austin: Yeah, it was.

Rachel: Like, that was legit. So we've literally been through a lot of different, like, church traumas or church

Austin: Yeah, our parents have worked

Rachel: Difficulties

Austin: In churches and, you know.

Rachel: Yeah, we both were raised in the church, but, then a year and a half into our marriage, my parents got a divorce. It was really ugly, really sad. but I truly do believe God used that in our marriage to catapult us into this ruthless, ruthless

Austin: Mm, I like the way you say ruthless

Rachel: Pursuit of learning and healing because it brought a lot up in me. A lot. Which I really, I'll try, no, I don't have to try not to get emotional. I can feel my feelings. But I really appreciate you, Austin, for what you have given to me through that whole journey.

Austin: Yeah. It's my honor.

Rachel: And

Austin: It's my duty.

Rachel: Yeah, and so everyone else knows, like, we, yeah, we dove deep. And we were, we, there was no other option to us. Like, we knew it was, that path was not for us. But I was raised by them. And, and, like, we didn't know what we didn't know, and I didn't wanna continue patterns at, that were passed down. I didn't want the generational, you know, I didn't wanna just continue what, you know, my mom or my parents or my grandparents and all that, what their life was. I wanted better. And I think that's every parent's desire is for their kids to do better. That's my desire. That's our desire for our kids. And so we haven't stopped. And we've learned from the best in the world. We've traveled. We've- Done all kinds of courses and certifications and, you know, read all the books. Not all the books. I don't want you to take that literally. We've read a lot of books and are consistently reading books because we desire for that excellence.

And, yeah, we used to do wedding photography together, and then we God

Austin: We

Rachel: Totally called us out of that burning bush moment. don't wanna give too much, like we could talk for

Austin: We'll share more

Rachel: A long time

Austin: We'll share more, more on that later, but yeah.

Rachel: People can get to know us slowly. We don't have to do a three-hour first, you know?

Austin: Yeah. But God, yeah, God

Rachel: First episode

Austin: God, you know, this, Rachel had a wedding photography business she started before we even got married, and and then we kinda grew it together as we, as we, were early on in our marriage. And, you know, God really showed us a lot, that again, this American marriage, right? Like, the American marriage, even for a lot of the Christians that we shot their weddings, was like it was just this kinda glorified, like, it has to look this way. And so 50, $100,000 were spent on weddings, and $0 were spent on the marriage. $0 were spent on counseling, on coaching, on preparation for being married. And so we saw everything you can imagine, and it really drove us to this place of, like, God really was like, "There is a void." Especially a void for Christians who want better, you know? And, and we do counseling for couples, we do coaching for, for couples. you know, and we do, we do a lo a lotta different, group programs and things.

But, it was like there's a gap where Christians had a really hard time asking for help, going to a counselor, going to a therapist. And so we were like, "We gotta figure out a way to get trained to fill that role," because God is really calling us to, like, fill this gap. Like, here's the problem, like, here are even Christians who are more worried about what their wedding photos are gonna look like than the integrity of their marriage.

Rachel: Yeah. We didn't I didn't wake up one day and be like, "Ah, I wanna be a marriage life coach." But it's like God was like, "Oh, yeah, you are," and placed that desire in our heart, which is actually m a more burning passion, when God places desires in our hearts. I'm way more passionate about this than wedding photography. Way more. And so thankful for it. But yeah- I appreciate what you're saying about that because, it was s couples that even we had done wedding photography w for were coming back to us and saying, "Hey, this is going on. Hey, can you help us?" And God just continued affirming in us

Austin: Bring Yeah

Rachel: Like, "Yeah, this is what you're gonna do."

Austin: Yeah. Well, and, and like you said, you know, I mean, or even from early on in our marriage, you know, we, we went through it, you know? I mean, with our church, with the, the cult takeover on a Sunday morning while we're y we're literally on stage leading worship for the church.

Rachel: Dude, yes.

Austin: And the back doors swing open and the whole crowd comes in. I'll never forget that. we'll, we'll share that story later. But going through that and, and losing our pastor early on, and, you know, and then obviously your parents' divorce. And, and so, I appreciate what you said, and I honor you for, for hanging with me and hanging through this journey because now God's gl now God's glorifying all that. All, all the sin, all the problem, all the shame, like, God is now taking that, and I mean, He's helped us help couples now for six years all over the world, you know? And so, like, to God be the glory, you know, that everything we've gone through is not in vain. So, like- I think that's really cool. And so, you know, now, here we are, right? God has, enabled us to build this really cool, really humbling business, you know, where now we we've taken, you know, our journey and our, our training and our passion and, and everything, and we've put it into this, this business where now we're able to go and equip churches. we're equipping counselors and therapists, with, with, with things to use with their couples.

And we've got books that we've written and, and a card game called the Connection Cards that is played all over the world. and so we're just really humbled at, where God took what we thought was just so tragic at the time and so hard to deal with, and just a lot of nights of, of crying and pain and, and just, like, wondering like, "God, where are you in this?" You know, like, "We know you're there, but like, God, we believe, you know, help, help our unbelief," right? And so but God's redeemed all that and enabled us to help a lot of couples, and a lot of churches. And so, yeah, so here we are now. And we're just excited to be able to take what He's given us and, the work that we've done with couples and, and just bring it to, to this platform and to where we are now, so.

Rachel: Yeah. So tell our listeners what couples who have gone through, like, our coaching program experience, or what a Conscious Christian Marriage looks like.

Austin: Ooh, very good question. So, let's just break that down a tiny bit, okay? So, a conscious Christian, okay, is a, a conscious Christian is a Christian who is conscious, aware, mindful, and present. That, that's who they are. They're someone who is, they're aware of what's going on inside them and how that affects, how they show up. They're aware of their emotions. They're aware of what's happening in their body. they're aware of their, their trauma, their fear, their pain, their, their shame, their guilt, their, how their past shows up today. You know, it's an another thing that I think the church is up against is, I mean, that c- Christians are up against is this message is taught that's like, "Well, God can just wipe away your past forever, and it'll never bother you, and it'll never affect your future again." That is just incorrect. You know, God has the ability to divinely heal you and help all your trauma disappear, all your past preconceived notions disappear.

We've seen it happen. Okay? And if that does not happen, if God is calling you to work through it so He can equip you that may not be the case, okay? You can And, and, and we have, we have prayed for couples and done, God, through His Holy Spirit, has enabled us to be, a part of healings, I mean, miraculous healings right in front of our eyes with people. It's been a amazing. Sometimes God does that. And sometimes, sometimes the Holy Spirit heals. Sometimes the Holy Spirit wants people to work it out.

Rachel: Yeah, because there's a lesson to be learned.

Austin: Because there's a lesson, and then now there's an equipping. Okay? So for a lot of Christians, it's like, you know, God might just snap his fingers and take away what you're, what you're dealing with. Sometimes He might make you go through it. So then you can be equipped to walk other people through it. You know, and so a conscious Christian is someone who has integration of their heart, mind, soul, and strength, okay? Jesus talked about what is the greatest commandment, to love the Lord your God with your heart, soul, mind, and strength. The second is to love your neighbor as yourself, okay? That greatest commandment, he's quoting the Shema. The Shema was the, the prayer that, the Hebrews prayed every day, okay?

Rachel: Do you wanna say it in Hebrew for me, please?

Austin: Yes, I can say it in Hebrew. I'll say it in Hebrew later. Do you want me to say it right now?

Rachel: I, yes, I wanna show you off to the world. You're just so cute.

Austin: Okay.

Rachel: I love your skills.

Austin: All right. Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad. Leva avta et Adonai elhecha u've chol levavcha u've chol nafsh'cha u've chol meodecha.

Rachel: See, some people might replay that over and over like you, 'cause they might have heard it and said, "Oh, what is the Shema in Hebrew? I wanna be able to pray that to God in His native language." And now they can just rewind it, like, 40 times and memorize it.

Austin: The Lord is our God, the Lord is one, and you shall love the Lord your God with your heart, soul, mind, and strength. and, you know, and God laid that scripture on our hearts a long time ago, actually years ago, and we'll share that story later too. But a conscious Christian is someone who has integration. They understand their heart, their mind, their soul, and their strength. Those are four dimensions of who they are, which I have to nod my hat to, to Dallas Willard, for helping me understand that. But to basically know, like, God gave you a heart, a mind, a body, a soul, a will, a strength. and all those four dimensions are to be worshiping God, okay? And so if, if God wants us to love Him with our heart, soul, mind, and strength, those dimensions of who we are must be nurtured. Period.

Rachel: And all of them.

Austin: And all of them.

Rachel: Because if we're kinda leaving one out

Austin: Yeah. And so when I think about kinda the Promised Land that we wanna lead that conscious Christian couple to, we want them to have that integration to where God is w is working in their heart, he's working in their mind, he's working in their faith journey, he's working in every area of their life, their health, their wealth their parenting, their everything. And so, and because of that, we've helped couples find peace, okay? We've helped, couples find harmony. We've helped couples find healing from old wounds. We've helped couples find frameworks to communicate that's actually effective. We've helped couples create agreements, to run their marriage with guardrails rather than these un unshared expectations that just lead to drama. We've helped couples get out of drama. We've helped couples, overcome, serious stuff, you know? And we've helped high-level couples. I mean, CEOs of organizations and high-level pastors find healing from things they could not find healing in in, in traditional counseling or therapy. which we, we don't dog on.

We appreciate those industries, and we use those modalities to help serve couples. But there is a certain approach. It's the integration. Okay? This is what it means to be a conscious Christian. It's understanding the somatic, the mind, our emotions. You know? Like, it actually matters. Your limbic system and your endocrine system and your neurological system and your heart and the Holy Spirit in you, they're all working together. Okay? They're all working together, and we help couples get that. Because when they get that, their marriage changes.

Rachel: Right. 'Cause they could be crossing a few things off their box or even three things but then neglecting to look at their hormonal health or neglecting to, pay attention to their emotions neglecting to process things, you know?

Austin: Yeah, not, not understanding that they might have an anxious attachment style because they're always worried about what their love connection was like with their parents. You know, or they might be avoidant, you know, because they realize that getting too close got them hurt, okay? Or they might not realize that, they experienced a trauma as a child that's showing up in their life as a 20, 30, 40, 50, 60-year-old. We've helped, one time we went to California to, do some training for a group of marriage of husband and wife marriage counselors, and we helped a woman who was 70 years old get through a trauma that she'd spent decades in therapy to get through. And by the grace of God. You know? I mean, this is, you know, Soli Deo Gloria. by the grace of God, we were able to help her get through this. But people don't realize, especially Christians don't realize that their old stuff does come into play until they heal it until they understand it, okay?

Until they have given, they've co-created healing with God, okay? We believe in, in, not to get too theological, but in, like, models of sovereignty. We really believe in this partnership model with God. We believe that, we and God co-create together, okay? We want God in the driver's seat. We want Him calling the shots. Our prayer every day is that God's will would be done, and not our own, and that our will would align with God, and that God would align our will to Him divinely. That is our prayer. We believe that God convicts us to act, and we act, and that co-creation, that co-laborship with Christ is really central to us growing as people. So the Promised Land for a conscious Christian is, intimacy, emotional, sexual, mental, spiritual intimacy with your spouse, the ability to lift your hands together and worship God together and in the next moment be at home having the best sex you've ever had. Okay? the Promised Land for our couples is that they're on the same page with parenting.

They're on the same page with their, their wealth. They're on the same page with how they commit to serving at church with the boundaries they put in relationships around them. the, that Promised Land is not ever wondering what your spouse is thinking about you what your spouse is going through, because they're being emotionally transparent. That's one of our core tenets we teach, is emotional transparency and how to set up agreements to do that.

Rachel: Right. And those couples are experiencing being able, knowing that they can just share whatever they're feeling, whatever they're thinking, when it comes up right in the moment, and share it and be received and heard and valued.

Austin: Yes. Yeah, to be seen, to be loved, to give and receive love. We believe that our culture has a fundamental problem with just the ability to give and receive love. Okay? People, their nervous system can't handle how good God wants it to be for them. But what the

Rachel: This is how we, like, probably prank people. We just like It's not pranking, but we just love showing love on people and, like, look them in the eye and, like, maybe, like, touch them

Austin: Yeah, you

Rachel: A little bit and appreciate them genuinely. Oh, man, you can s you know, people kinda squirm a little bit.

Austin: People are like, "Oh, I can't, I can't handle that much love."

Rachel: Like, I'm like, "Receive it." Just receive it.

Austin: Yeah. Because you have to receive from God before you can give it. You have to receive it and accept it before you can give it. You will not love your spouse, okay, more than you have love and honor for yourself. You will not love your neighbor- More than you love yourself. 'Cause what is the second greatest commandment? To love your neighbor as you love yourself. In fact, when Jesus talks about judgment, the sheep and the goats, He's literally talking about how you loved your neighbor. And then the second greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as you love yourself. And, you know, and everyone wants to debate this, and I'm not I just If, if you wanna debate this, you may not like our podcast. But it's You have to understand, if you love yourself at the expense of another person, that's different. Okay? If I put someone down, okay, if I step on someone to gain more love for myself, that's a problem, okay?

That is a problem. But the more I receive God's love and the more that I accept it on me, I will treat you better. I'll honor you on a different level. I'll honor you on a different level. Because again you will not do for others what you won't do for yourself. You can fake it a little bit. You can do it a little bit, but not sustainably. You'll eventually crumble.

Rachel: And people feel it if it's ingenuine.

Austin: Yeah, they can feel it. That's right. So, the Promised Land for the Conscious Christian Couple is abundant life in Christ, is what it looks like. It's harmony. It's peace. It's synergy. It's knowing that you and your spouse are on the same team, the same page. And if you have a learning opportunity, you will work through it. And we give frameworks so that c communicating around that is easy. It's fun. It's cur it's curiosity. People watch Rachel and I, like, talk through a conflict and, or learning opportunities. We call it learning opportunities. I've called it that for six years, and I still just

Rachel: Just said conflict

Austin: I just said conflict.

Rachel: You said the C-word.

Austin: I said the C-word. and, you know, it's like, and they watch us work through our stuff, and they're like, "Wow, like, you can do that? Like, that's a that's a way?" Yeah. It's like, it's curiosity. It's honor. You know, because I know that discipline is making decisions based on what I want the most versus what I want in a moment, right? And what I want more than being right is to be connected to you. Okay? And because we scaffold ourselves up with that framework, we can remember that in the moment, and that's what we teach couples. Like, we teach couples, how to have those frameworks and agreements to where their marriage can be powerful, and it can be a way to worship God. Christians have got to start to r realize or re-remember that the way they honor God is the way that they treat their spouse. The way they honor their spouse is the way they honor God. And I think it's a good wake-up call to realize, like, hey, like, is the way I'm treating my spouse, honoring my spouse, in front of them, not with them, in secret, and not, you know is that the way that I'd want Christ to see me honoring them, you know?

And we really believe in that level of excellence and that level of accountability. Because again, anything that's worth doing is worth overdoing, okay? The, and the rest of that is moderation is for cowards. We don't believe in moderation with our marriage because from this place, all ministry goes forth, okay? Yeah. And so that, that's the promise. That's the Promised Land. The Promised Land is, is, abundance. It's joy. It's peace. It's comfort. It's grace. it's knowing that your spouse is your partner. They're not your codependent completion component. Okay? They are your supplementation. They're your complementation. They are, they're the person with you that you multiply with, not just literally with children, if you have children. But, like, when you and I are together, we multiply. Okay? I, as, every time I say that, it's kinda funny. But we

Rachel: Is it a little sexual for you every time?

Austin: It is a little sexual. Just a little bit every time. But, but when we're together, we do more than when we're apart, okay? You don't complete me, and I don't complete you, okay, but we complement each other. You know, God makes God is able to take our one plus one and make it a million, because of the power of the Holy Spirit, you know? That's what the Promised Land looks like. So, final question for you, Rachel. Why are we launching this podcast now? Like, why now?

Rachel: Because when's the best time to plant a tree? Wait.

Austin: Thousand years ago.

Rachel: Wait, wait, wait. Did I say this right?

Austin: No, you said it right. Yeah. When's the best time to plant a tree? 100 years ago.

Rachel: 100 years ago.

Austin: Second-best time is

Rachel: It's Well, yeah, this mission for us is, there's a, there's a righteous urgency. There's, like, a burning passion for us because we care so deeply. We feel so deeply called. And this marriage that Austin just described, like, we want you, the listener, to experience. We are so passionate about equipping you, and we want to spread these tools around the world. We want to be, you know, accessible to anyone because, that's what we looked for and we couldn't find. And so, we're so happy and thankful and grateful for the tool you know, the people that we've already reached, but, like, we're never stopping. because we truly believe that God We have a vision for what God has called us to, and it's it involves you, the listener. And so shameless plug for you to like, comment, share. because you are actually part of what we're doing. You are a part of the mission because, we do this together. You know, what God has equipped us with, it's about you.

It's about, helping each other grow. And, I'm excited about this podcast because it's another avenue for us. And you, you ask why now. I mean, it's about time because people have been requesting it for a long time.

Austin: Yeah, yeah. We've had people for years. But

Rachel: We actually resisted it at first.

Austin: Yeah. But also from a culture perspective, like you talk about planting a tree 1,000 years ago like, this message of being a conscious Christian being someone who has heart, mind, soul, strength Christian, was needed a long time ago. And if you look at our culture today, like, what a mentor of ours, always says, "Every slope's a slippery one." Our nation, our culture, is on the slipperiest slope it's ever been on. Okay? We're, we're, we're losing core values, in this, in this nation. even the Church is starting to slip on their values. Okay? We're in a world where people can identify whatever gender they want, whatever race they want. They can you know, we're, we're losing the sanctity of the masculine and the feminine. We're losing the sanctity of, of honoring women and, and the, and male leadership, and we're losing the sanctity of how God made things to be, the purity of marriage, the rightness of marriage. And so, there's never been a time, a better time than, than right now. and so we have watched our culture backslide to such a degree.

We've watched, components of the big C Church start to backslide and cave to the pressures of society. And so, like And, and we're people who draw lines in the sand, so just, like, be ready for that because that, that's who we are. we're people of conviction, because that's what God calls us to. And I, I believe we're doing a disservice to God to do anything less than that. So the, I, my, my bit on that would just be the, the, the time is now because, I think it's needed more than ever. Okay? And I, there's a stat, like in our church, we go to, to an incredible church in Lee's Summit, Missouri, called Summit Park Church. Scott and Jen Obrinsky are our pastors. We love them very much. they just, yeah

Rachel: Amazing people

Austin: Yeah. And so, but one of our kind of ideal person that we go for, we call 'em Kansas City Kyle. And Kansas City Kyle, is, you know, we d derive that from this idea that if we can get the husband in church and get him saved, he will bring his family. You know, and, and we believe, that God made men and women differently and powerfully differently for for amazing reasons.

Rachel: Great purpose, yeah.

Austin: Yeah, and but the stats are that, you know, if a woman comes to the church, you know, only X percent, you know, of her, of their family's likely to come as well. But if the father, if the husband, the leader of the family if he's in church, the whole family's gonna come.

Rachel: Yeah. Yeah, and right now, I think Christians are maybe the most hesitant they've ever been to ask for help because it seems like so much more is at stake. Things are, m you know, socially more dis on, on display

Austin: Exa exactly

Rachel: Perceivably on display. And so I think even as people in leadership, there seems to be more at stake for them to reach out and ask for help because, yeah, I mean, that's the pro that's one of the problems is there's so much scandal in the church. But it's like if those pastors were just supported properly like they're, they're wounded people. They're just like us. We're all wounded people who need Jesus. And if they just were supported really well to have, I mean, there's a scandal going on right now in Kansas City that's sad and heartbreaking and it's affecting a lot of our friends, and it's been, you know, very sad to watch, but it's like, man, if that person just knew

Austin: Should've had safeguards and, yeah

Rachel: Yeah, safeguards

Austin: Accountability

Rachel: Knew who to go to for help, wasn't ashamed to say, "Hey, this is"

Austin: And didn't get the

Rachel: You know, "This is where I'm at."

Austin: Yeah, and didn't get the, the cliché spiritually overridden advice, you know?

Rachel: Then

Austin: To actually dig down deep and assess like what's going on, you know? And to, and to feel safety to share that with intimate, trusted people you know? could, could change the outcomes of so many of these moral failures that the church is experiencing.

Rachel: And we wanna change the narrative on that.

Austin: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, we do. We, we wanna change the narrative to where the leading pastors in the nation are the ones that are asking for the most help, the most support, the most transparency, the most accountability. you know, and so a and a big nod to some, you know, the other leaders, the, you know who you are, in the church that, that are being accountable at that level, 'cause we could name a lot of them that we've worked with,

Rachel: Yeah. Okay, so Austin, share with our listeners the vision for the podcast and what's next. What can they expect?

Austin: So the vision for this podcast is that, we're gonna have regular content, that's gonna help them grow in their marriage. It's gonna help them grow in their faith. It's gonna help them grow in some, you know, ancillary very important areas too, like their health, their wealth, their relationships, parenting. but we're really focused on marriage right now. and so, we really just like, it's just like we have a dream, okay? Like, it's just like, I, I wanna have my own I have a dream speech, right? It's like I have a dream that Christian couples could thrive. I have this dream that Christian couples could be transparent about their emotions, their fears, their insecurities, their doubts. Like, I have this dream that high-level, driven Christian couples would be willing to sit down, whether it's two on two or in front of a group of 100 other Christians, 1,000 other Christians, and say, "We love each other, and we have growth opportunities." "We love each other, and we wanna grow.

We love each other, and we realize our trauma has come into play. We love each other, and we know God's working on us, but we know that we must, there must be something we're missing, and we want to figure it out," okay? Because, you know, there's, there's the couple that wants to look the part so they don't get divorced because the shame of divorce is too much to bear, and that's why, you know, they're, they're, they're trying to look all perfect. We

Rachel: Which of course leads them that way.

Austin: Which of course leads them to that destination. We want the couple that they wanna work on their marriage because they love each other so much. Like divorce or anything like that's not even an option because they're so madly in love with each other, and they're so madly in pursuit of honoring God with their marriage. They will figure anything out, work through anything heal anything, you know, take ownership for anything, take responsibility for anything, so that they can honor God and honor each other. I have this dream that Christian couples, okay, can become fully integrated people, that they can have a powerful heart, mind, soul, and strength, and that those four dimensions of who they are would honor God to the highest level. And that they would inspire their kids, they would inspire their communities, their neighbors, their fellow, friends, at church, that all the couples that meet them would be like, "Whoa, what is going on with you? You guys have an amazing marriage. You guys, you guys talk about like emotions, and you take responsibility, and you're never blaming each other.

You, you don't make each other say I'm sorry. You know, you, you thank each other for patience and grace, and you, you accept responsibility, and you claim responsibility." Like, I have this dream that Christian couples would be able to have that thriving life in Christ. because they're not spiritually overriding their experience. They're not just having that, that cliché Christianese being spoken over their life. All you have to do is pray and read the Bible. Lay it at the foot of the cross, and that'll be it, okay? That is not what God calls us to. He calls us to action. He calls us to response. He calls us to conviction. You know, a lot of times in the church, and I, I, I get this message, it's like, "God'll do all the work." It's like, well, when in scripture was that ever true? Like, that God would just do all the work. Like, you just need to pray about, let God, let God fight all your battles.

God does fight a ba a lot of our spiritual battles especially, okay? But, like, you look at so many parts of the Bible, okay? What was Paul doing? Paul did the work, okay? The, the disciples, the apostles, the churches, the deacons, the deaconesses, they did the work. They traveled. They preached. They lamented. They fought. They, many of them ended up martyred. They did the work, okay? And so there's this, this Christianese idea that th you don't have to do anything but that. It's that and this. Okay? I have this dream that Christian couples can realize I can be faithful in God and receive counseling. Okay? I can be faithful in God and dependent on him, and take action in, in getting coaching, getting counseling, getting therapy, doing marriage courses, reading book like, th watching this podcast. Like, you can go to church and get your marriage filled up, and you can watch this podcast. Right. You can pray that God would just redeem your pod your, your, your podcast.

You can just pray that God would redeem your marriage all day long, and then attend our live trainings, go through our workbooks, work with other couples that we're working with, like find community- Mm-hmm with other couples that wanna want their marriage to be leveled up. I have this dream that Christian couples, for maybe the first time ever in history, would be willing to be open, transparent, and honest about what they struggle with, about what they deal with, what they wrestle with, okay? Mm-hmm. Just like Jacob wrestled with God, 'kay, I want them to be honest about what they wrestle with so God can transform their marriage. Because too many times we start working with a couple in their 60s, and they're like, "Man, I wish this was around when I was 20"- Yeah "when we first got married." We don't wanna hear that anymore, okay? It's There's, there's resources out there now, whether it's us or someone else, but there's resources out there, and I have this dream that Christian couples would step it up, okay?

And that they would integrate their faith with integrating the development of their, of their insides, their heart, their mind, their soul, their strength. Bring those two things together so that they can co-labor with Christ and with the Holy Spirit to literally transform the world. Mm-hmm. That's the vision of this podcast. I love it. I love you. And I love you. Okay. Well, Rachel, I really enjoyed having this conversation with you today. And to all of you who are watching or listening, thank you for joining us, thank you for being here, and witnessing this monumental episode as we launch this podcast that we have thought about doing for many, many years. but we, we love you all, we appreciate you all. We really do pray for you. Even though we don't know you, we are- Mm-hmm praying for you, that God is- Mm working through you, working in your marriage, transforming you from the inside out. and, be on the lookout for more episodes, for more content.

We will be doing this regularly, and, we're excited to have you as a part of this movement, and, until next time. Yep. Don't forget: like, comment, subscribe. We'd love to meet you.